The Alaska discount is alive and well
03-15-2023, 10:12 AM
#381
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,241
Well, I got a good chuckle in… thanks. I think the more I read the 30’s comments, the more I realize, they are not just angry and bitter, they are definitely SLOW!
It all makes me wonder, why are thousands upon thousands bypassing upgrade at Delta? Are they waiting until they are senior enough to hold reserve? 😂. I bet that is it🙄. Right now DA has the best overall contract. How much better is it? Well that probably depends on where you live and your personal seniority number. In the last 22 years DA has been a great place to work and a pretty miserable place to work. That is the truth. It’s a job, they pay us to work. If we become too inefficient, our cost eventually will lead to unprofitability, this is an extremely high cost industry, each company is dependent on massive amounts of revenue to sustain those high costs. At every airline right now people are scoring great deals. Deals that pay an awful lot for very little. Those are exceptions not rules, if they were rules, every airline would be bankrupt. The average pilot at both companies is either getting 18-19 off in the low 70’s or 14-15 off in the mid to high 90’s credit window. That’s just how it works. There are a few at each company scoring 120-200 with a variable number of days off, depending how big the score is. At those credit windows though, most are under 12 off, some doing it with 6 or 7 off🤢.
When this contract cycle is finished, you will likely be able to pick different contractual language you covet at each airline. No matter where you work, you will be able to look somewhere else and desire something. Most want to believe they have the best job, they work for the best company. The contrarians do the opposite, they believe that they work for the absolute worst company and bitterly covet every other job. Me personally, I want Delta pay rates, with UAL’s number of wide bodies, add AAL’s retirements, now combine that with my current AS schedule, quality of life, retirement, and maybe finally I would have an OK job🙄
Unless the economy falls apart, we will snap, the magic will happen, PBS will bring a better schedule, but for the thirty, that will never be enough. Everyone is hiring, if you think happiness is somewhere else, go get it. If reserve rules are the most important thing to you, sounds like maybe head to Delta 😂. In the end, I am confident NB rates will all be very similar, if you are the type of person that argues about pennies, you will never be happy!
It all makes me wonder, why are thousands upon thousands bypassing upgrade at Delta? Are they waiting until they are senior enough to hold reserve? 😂. I bet that is it🙄. Right now DA has the best overall contract. How much better is it? Well that probably depends on where you live and your personal seniority number. In the last 22 years DA has been a great place to work and a pretty miserable place to work. That is the truth. It’s a job, they pay us to work. If we become too inefficient, our cost eventually will lead to unprofitability, this is an extremely high cost industry, each company is dependent on massive amounts of revenue to sustain those high costs. At every airline right now people are scoring great deals. Deals that pay an awful lot for very little. Those are exceptions not rules, if they were rules, every airline would be bankrupt. The average pilot at both companies is either getting 18-19 off in the low 70’s or 14-15 off in the mid to high 90’s credit window. That’s just how it works. There are a few at each company scoring 120-200 with a variable number of days off, depending how big the score is. At those credit windows though, most are under 12 off, some doing it with 6 or 7 off🤢.
When this contract cycle is finished, you will likely be able to pick different contractual language you covet at each airline. No matter where you work, you will be able to look somewhere else and desire something. Most want to believe they have the best job, they work for the best company. The contrarians do the opposite, they believe that they work for the absolute worst company and bitterly covet every other job. Me personally, I want Delta pay rates, with UAL’s number of wide bodies, add AAL’s retirements, now combine that with my current AS schedule, quality of life, retirement, and maybe finally I would have an OK job🙄
Unless the economy falls apart, we will snap, the magic will happen, PBS will bring a better schedule, but for the thirty, that will never be enough. Everyone is hiring, if you think happiness is somewhere else, go get it. If reserve rules are the most important thing to you, sounds like maybe head to Delta 😂. In the end, I am confident NB rates will all be very similar, if you are the type of person that argues about pennies, you will never be happy!
03-15-2023, 01:17 PM
#382
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 257
Well, I got a good chuckle in… thanks. I think the more I read the 30’s comments, the more I realize, they are not just angry and bitter, they are definitely SLOW!
It all makes me wonder, why are thousands upon thousands bypassing upgrade at Delta? Are they waiting until they are senior enough to hold reserve? 😂. I bet that is it🙄. Right now DA has the best overall contract. How much better is it? Well that probably depends on where you live and your personal seniority number. In the last 22 years DA has been a great place to work and a pretty miserable place to work. That is the truth. It’s a job, they pay us to work. If we become too inefficient, our cost eventually will lead to unprofitability, this is an extremely high cost industry, each company is dependent on massive amounts of revenue to sustain those high costs. At every airline right now people are scoring great deals. Deals that pay an awful lot for very little. Those are exceptions not rules, if they were rules, every airline would be bankrupt. The average pilot at both companies is either getting 18-19 off in the low 70’s or 14-15 off in the mid to high 90’s credit window. That’s just how it works. There are a few at each company scoring 120-200 with a variable number of days off, depending how big the score is. At those credit windows though, most are under 12 off, some doing it with 6 or 7 off🤢.
When this contract cycle is finished, you will likely be able to pick different contractual language you covet at each airline. No matter where you work, you will be able to look somewhere else and desire something. Most want to believe they have the best job, they work for the best company. The contrarians do the opposite, they believe that they work for the absolute worst company and bitterly covet every other job. Me personally, I want Delta pay rates, with UAL’s number of wide bodies, add AAL’s retirements, now combine that with my current AS schedule, quality of life, retirement, and maybe finally I would have an OK job🙄
Unless the economy falls apart, we will snap, the magic will happen, PBS will bring a better schedule, but for the thirty, that will never be enough. Everyone is hiring, if you think happiness is somewhere else, go get it. If reserve rules are the most important thing to you, sounds like maybe head to Delta 😂. In the end, I am confident NB rates will all be very similar, if you are the type of person that argues about pennies, you will never be happy!
It all makes me wonder, why are thousands upon thousands bypassing upgrade at Delta? Are they waiting until they are senior enough to hold reserve? 😂. I bet that is it🙄. Right now DA has the best overall contract. How much better is it? Well that probably depends on where you live and your personal seniority number. In the last 22 years DA has been a great place to work and a pretty miserable place to work. That is the truth. It’s a job, they pay us to work. If we become too inefficient, our cost eventually will lead to unprofitability, this is an extremely high cost industry, each company is dependent on massive amounts of revenue to sustain those high costs. At every airline right now people are scoring great deals. Deals that pay an awful lot for very little. Those are exceptions not rules, if they were rules, every airline would be bankrupt. The average pilot at both companies is either getting 18-19 off in the low 70’s or 14-15 off in the mid to high 90’s credit window. That’s just how it works. There are a few at each company scoring 120-200 with a variable number of days off, depending how big the score is. At those credit windows though, most are under 12 off, some doing it with 6 or 7 off🤢.
When this contract cycle is finished, you will likely be able to pick different contractual language you covet at each airline. No matter where you work, you will be able to look somewhere else and desire something. Most want to believe they have the best job, they work for the best company. The contrarians do the opposite, they believe that they work for the absolute worst company and bitterly covet every other job. Me personally, I want Delta pay rates, with UAL’s number of wide bodies, add AAL’s retirements, now combine that with my current AS schedule, quality of life, retirement, and maybe finally I would have an OK job🙄
Unless the economy falls apart, we will snap, the magic will happen, PBS will bring a better schedule, but for the thirty, that will never be enough. Everyone is hiring, if you think happiness is somewhere else, go get it. If reserve rules are the most important thing to you, sounds like maybe head to Delta 😂. In the end, I am confident NB rates will all be very similar, if you are the type of person that argues about pennies, you will never be happy!
03-15-2023, 09:35 PM
#383
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
Well, I got a good chuckle in… thanks. I think the more I read the 30’s comments, the more I realize, they are not just angry and bitter, they are definitely SLOW!
It all makes me wonder, why are thousands upon thousands bypassing upgrade at Delta? Are they waiting until they are senior enough to hold reserve? 😂. I bet that is it🙄. Right now DA has the best overall contract. How much better is it? Well that probably depends on where you live and your personal seniority number. In the last 22 years DA has been a great place to work and a pretty miserable place to work. That is the truth. It’s a job, they pay us to work. If we become too inefficient, our cost eventually will lead to unprofitability, this is an extremely high cost industry, each company is dependent on massive amounts of revenue to sustain those high costs. At every airline right now people are scoring great deals. Deals that pay an awful lot for very little. Those are exceptions not rules, if they were rules, every airline would be bankrupt. The average pilot at both companies is either getting 18-19 off in the low 70’s or 14-15 off in the mid to high 90’s credit window. That’s just how it works. There are a few at each company scoring 120-200 with a variable number of days off, depending how big the score is. At those credit windows though, most are under 12 off, some doing it with 6 or 7 off🤢.
When this contract cycle is finished, you will likely be able to pick different contractual language you covet at each airline. No matter where you work, you will be able to look somewhere else and desire something. Most want to believe they have the best job, they work for the best company. The contrarians do the opposite, they believe that they work for the absolute worst company and bitterly covet every other job. Me personally, I want Delta pay rates, with UAL’s number of wide bodies, add AAL’s retirements, now combine that with my current AS schedule, quality of life, retirement, and maybe finally I would have an OK job🙄
Unless the economy falls apart, we will snap, the magic will happen, PBS will bring a better schedule, but for the thirty, that will never be enough. Everyone is hiring, if you think happiness is somewhere else, go get it. If reserve rules are the most important thing to you, sounds like maybe head to Delta 😂. In the end, I am confident NB rates will all be very similar, if you are the type of person that argues about pennies, you will never be happy!
It all makes me wonder, why are thousands upon thousands bypassing upgrade at Delta? Are they waiting until they are senior enough to hold reserve? 😂. I bet that is it🙄. Right now DA has the best overall contract. How much better is it? Well that probably depends on where you live and your personal seniority number. In the last 22 years DA has been a great place to work and a pretty miserable place to work. That is the truth. It’s a job, they pay us to work. If we become too inefficient, our cost eventually will lead to unprofitability, this is an extremely high cost industry, each company is dependent on massive amounts of revenue to sustain those high costs. At every airline right now people are scoring great deals. Deals that pay an awful lot for very little. Those are exceptions not rules, if they were rules, every airline would be bankrupt. The average pilot at both companies is either getting 18-19 off in the low 70’s or 14-15 off in the mid to high 90’s credit window. That’s just how it works. There are a few at each company scoring 120-200 with a variable number of days off, depending how big the score is. At those credit windows though, most are under 12 off, some doing it with 6 or 7 off🤢.
When this contract cycle is finished, you will likely be able to pick different contractual language you covet at each airline. No matter where you work, you will be able to look somewhere else and desire something. Most want to believe they have the best job, they work for the best company. The contrarians do the opposite, they believe that they work for the absolute worst company and bitterly covet every other job. Me personally, I want Delta pay rates, with UAL’s number of wide bodies, add AAL’s retirements, now combine that with my current AS schedule, quality of life, retirement, and maybe finally I would have an OK job🙄
Unless the economy falls apart, we will snap, the magic will happen, PBS will bring a better schedule, but for the thirty, that will never be enough. Everyone is hiring, if you think happiness is somewhere else, go get it. If reserve rules are the most important thing to you, sounds like maybe head to Delta 😂. In the end, I am confident NB rates will all be very similar, if you are the type of person that argues about pennies, you will never be happy!
And you laugh at the idea of reserve being able to be a good deal, but the impact it has on every aspect of bidding is massive. Keep in mind Delta is 100% long call with only escalation to short call (up to 6 a month but I've never had that many).
I know you already got yours as you see it, but if Alaska pilots fight for similar reserve rules it really would make a difference to most of the seniority list. I think our reserve rules are a unicorn in the industry though.
03-15-2023, 09:40 PM
#384
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
I honestly think Alaska should pay same as any other Legacy pays their 737 crews. I know that's a tough hill to climb, but that's what you deserve. When it comes to domestic flying you compete more with other legacies than any perceived LCCs.
03-16-2023, 12:30 PM
#385
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,241
Since I think this is directed at me, I would feel remiss if I didn't point out that upgrades at Delta are like they are for many reasons. One being a variety of bases, another variety of flying. Even though widebody is a big part of it, just the sheer number of aircraft types makes an impact. We have pilots that bypass upgrade simply based on what aircraft they would be on and many pilots will forsake upgrade for their base of choice (most pilots gladly take the pay and seniority hit not to be based in NYC). And widebody FOs almost as a rule won't upgrade into a narrowbody. It takes a lot more seniority to hold widebody FO as the plug in Seattle than narrowbody captain. And of course, even at Delta someone has to work the holidays so being senior in category gives more ability to choose which days you work.
And you laugh at the idea of reserve being able to be a good deal, but the impact it has on every aspect of bidding is massive. Keep in mind Delta is 100% long call with only escalation to short call (up to 6 a month but I've never had that many).
I know you already got yours as you see it, but if Alaska pilots fight for similar reserve rules it really would make a difference to most of the seniority list. I think our reserve rules are a unicorn in the industry though.
And you laugh at the idea of reserve being able to be a good deal, but the impact it has on every aspect of bidding is massive. Keep in mind Delta is 100% long call with only escalation to short call (up to 6 a month but I've never had that many).
I know you already got yours as you see it, but if Alaska pilots fight for similar reserve rules it really would make a difference to most of the seniority list. I think our reserve rules are a unicorn in the industry though.
I have a good friend at Delta, he stayed a 330 FO until he could hold a descent NB schedule out west. It was all about quality of life. Recently he told me he wished he upgraded sooner, he makes way more as a NB CA then he was making as a WB FO… He said the whole time he was a WB FO, he rationalized the compensation as equal, he realizes now, he was just lying to himself to make him feel better about staying a FO. He definitely works harder now though. And I would say there is a Zero chance he is bidding reserve anytime soon😂
Last edited by OTZeagle1; 03-16-2023 at 12:41 PM.
03-16-2023, 12:39 PM
#386
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,241
Me personally, I just think it’s truly sad that Delta doesn’t pay you guys a pension, you guys are worth that you know! I know that is a pretty tough hill to climb though.
03-16-2023, 02:10 PM
#387
Isn’t that a sauce?
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 280
They will, wait for the magic. AAL UA and SWA will sign deals in the near future. The numbers should put us around 335-336 by September. We will see what our managements move is this spring.
Me personally, I just think it’s truly sad that Delta doesn’t pay you guys a pension, you guys are worth that you know! I know that is a pretty tough hill to climb though.
Me personally, I just think it’s truly sad that Delta doesn’t pay you guys a pension, you guys are worth that you know! I know that is a pretty tough hill to climb though.
03-16-2023, 02:24 PM
#390
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,241
I got this pice of paper in the mail the other day. Dated 2023, gave me our pension funding level, my 30 year payout estimate, and my 40 year payout estimate. Seems pretty legit to me.🤷♂️
Seems like many on here have been in this industry a minute and already have it all figured out. It’s a marathon guys, not a sprint! You have people on here virtue signaling about rates and contracts that aren’t even off probation. Everyone would have a pension if it weren’t for so many cowards that quickly went to their knees when they saw the first wave of the storm. How about a pilot group that folded in 2005 with regard to their pension, yup that’s the very same one many on her see as such incredible negotiators now🤔. Yup, I still have a fully funded pension, our union sold it away for new hires because every other legacy carrier decided they weren’t worth enough. Too hard of a hill to climb. So many find themselves on top for a minute and sell the lye they have been there, their whole life🙄
Maybe I am just the only one that knows what I am actually worth 🙄
Seems like many on here have been in this industry a minute and already have it all figured out. It’s a marathon guys, not a sprint! You have people on here virtue signaling about rates and contracts that aren’t even off probation. Everyone would have a pension if it weren’t for so many cowards that quickly went to their knees when they saw the first wave of the storm. How about a pilot group that folded in 2005 with regard to their pension, yup that’s the very same one many on her see as such incredible negotiators now🤔. Yup, I still have a fully funded pension, our union sold it away for new hires because every other legacy carrier decided they weren’t worth enough. Too hard of a hill to climb. So many find themselves on top for a minute and sell the lye they have been there, their whole life🙄
Maybe I am just the only one that knows what I am actually worth 🙄
Last edited by OTZeagle1; 03-16-2023 at 02:40 PM.
