echelon

​​​​​​"Career portability and the seniority system?" So by that logic... the pilots at Delta and American, who are much less likely to leave than Alaska pilots, must be worth less? And yet somehow they knew that the "average up" BS wasn't good enough and demanded something better.

"Career portability and the seniority system" doesn't explain why 82% of us settled for contract language with a hole in it big enough to drive a bus through.

ShyGuy

This seems like something flyprdu would write, who conveniently hasn’t posted since Nov 2022. But reluctant Eskimo comes out of nowhere in April. Weird. Did you just finally discover APC after all these years?


In any case. Assuming you weren’t trolling, to answer your question, ALL the stories you hear of Delta guys making absolute bank are guys who are milking the system and taking advantage of every nugget. But when AS pilots write doing similar, it’s met with disdain. I’m “Good” = taking advantage of everything possible in the current contract to maximize the time at home while maximizing pay at work.

ShyGuy

They are bigger companies with bigger fleets, larger models, larger route network, breadth, revenues, market cap, and just about every measurable quantity. AS just isn’t the same. Reminds me of the men vs soccer women pay parity issue. “We’re playing the same sport!” Yes, you are. But it’s all about what you bring in. Your tickets, your revenues, your crowds are nowhere close compared to the other.




82% said yes because the union fought for the cornerstone issues we asked them (eg, scope). I don’t recall people asking/demanding snap up provisions. This contract met the requirements of what we were asking for. You’ll get 318 Sept 1 as worse case and then Sept 2024 will be more than 331.



What hope you referring to? The pilot group asked for 3 large groups for this contract. We met that goal. Having a snap up was never discussed

ReluctantEskimo

I guess you missed the road shows.

ReluctantEskimo

Delta pilots have earned their right to make bank, because they have an industry leading contract. When an Alaska pilot makes bank, while simultaneously praising the 10% Alaska discount, then there's a problem.

echelon

One, speak for yourself - It's funny to think back on when "5th best" was a rallying cry for this group now that we'll soon be a distant 7th or 8th (AFTER a round of negotiations!), but anyway, 6 years ago when that was a thing it was clear that preventing ourselves from being relegated to last place, or close to it, was important. It was a priority for me and my rep knew that.

And two - The ENTIRE contract was open for negotiations. If pilots weren't asking the NC/reps for enough, including a snap up provision, isn't that the problem?

ShyGuy

We asked for 4 cornerstone areas. They delivered. The angry crowd is just peeved the big 3 got/getting more. In fact, there was even a rallying cry to now intentionally delay and stall from the union side to see what others would get first.


Some people will just never be happy. And the grass really isn’t that much greener. If you reallly believed it was, you would have left Virgin/Alaska a while ago.

ReluctantEskimo

You keep bringing this up like it's some victory for you. All of your pre-CBA forecasts were wildly incorrect. There was no recession. The majors delivered within weeks, not years, after our announcement. Waiting for stronger unions to clear a path would have resulted in a much better contract. We left tens of thousands on the table.

This thread is a time capsule of bad takes by you.

ShyGuy

prdu, is that you? Same old cry. We ain’t out of the woods yet on the recession topic.


The majors delivered, only JetBlue, American, and Delta. Your rallying cry when United TA 1 was voted down, that TA would be 2 weeks around the corner. Been over a year now. Nothing.

Like it or not, it’s unlikely SW and UA get new contracts in place by Sept 1.

Avgeek7248

Sure they’re much bigger and make a lot more revenue. But one thing AS does better is make money hand over fist. They’re by no means struggling to get by profit wise.