TA is here
#361
This line of thinking is exactly how we fell so far behind the industry. Time, value of money. Lock this in now and get 'em next time. We'll lose too much money due to the time it takes to continue negotiating. Etc. Etc. This thinking is why we, at AS, in 2022, had to spend all our negotiating time and capital on Scope and Work rules. Things almost every other major airline has had for years if not decades. The NC focued on the same 4 pillars from the JCBA negotiations. Did "mostly" fine there but left the rest of the contract untouched. We won't see this negotiating environment again. This is a once in a career moment. There is no getting them next time, my friend.
A. Majority of Alaska pilots in the past being just as siloed as management thinking like a regional carrier.
B. Management infiltration of MEC leadership
C. No strike clause/binding arbitration
D. Overall “mom and pop” paradigm in the past that we’re just all one big happy family.
Im incredibly sympathetic to the the “once in a lifetime” argument. I’ve waited 35 years to see the “pilot shortage” happen. But, to be clear, our deficit at Alaska is not what it is at our competitors. The apex of our negotiating power prob was just at pre Covid. And the idea that the Democratic Party is “pro labor” died when Clinton signed NAFTA.
#362
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Precarious
Posts: 387
This line of thinking is exactly how we fell so far behind the industry. Time, value of money. Lock this in now and get 'em next time. We'll lose too much money due to the time it takes to continue negotiating. Etc. Etc. This thinking is why we, at AS, in 2022, had to spend all our negotiating time and capital on Scope and Work rules. Things almost every other major airline has had for years if not decades. The NC focued on the same 4 pillars from the JCBA negotiations. Did "mostly" fine there but left the rest of the contract untouched. We won't see this negotiating environment again. This is a once in a career moment. There is no getting them next time, my friend.
#363
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 910
When I see what's really in there, I think we are getting them this time, and we will probably be getting them next time too. The pilot shortage, which is our true leverage isn't going anywhere in the mid term. In the short term it could subside during a recession, but it will be back with a vengeance after.
Next time will look much less favorable.
This is our one and only shot.
#364
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Which NMB member voted against releasing the railroad unions from mediation, after less than six months in mediation, in June?
Which legislators introduced legislation in the last few days of the PEB to force rail workers back to work without addressing their concern with sick days? Which legislator blocked them from advancing their legislation?
Why did the rail companies settle with the unions on the 59th day of the PEB, granting the unions the sick days they had, up to that point, been unsuccessful in obtaining?
It seems that this current administration has been extremely friendly to labor unions - at least so far, in the first major test of its friendliness toward labor unions regulated by the RLA.
#365
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 20
Small detail.
Vote YES. The union fought hard and tenaciously to get the best deal and find new allies in the media to shame management to get the lead out of their you-know-what and do a deal.
#366
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 20
Some gouge from a friend
Delta just sent a strike authorization ballot out.
Southwest is gonna go to the matresses because their management is asleep in the cockpit or worse. Herb Kelleher is NOT resting in peace right now, I can tell you that from the Simple Flying articles I read on the crisis.
United and American aren't far behind.
Swift and JetBlue... going to be interesting.
Everybody's hoping Alaska's TA gets ratified. It solves many of Alaska's problems and will put a boot in the a$$ of the other airlines to get to a deal instead of stall, sleep or whatnot. SWAPA's Casey Murray can't be everywhere doing tiger stuff, you know?
If I had a vote I'd pass this TA with a smile. The economy is about to go the wrong way. This deal has a good scope deal. This deal ends the Alaska discount. This deal fixes scheduling. This TA will end the nonsense and put a boot up management's a$$ to take care of the angels in back quickly. Alaska Airlines can then just smirk and smile and salute as Southwest Airlines gets into more trouble.
Oh and Delta Air Lines? Let 'em Airbust into a beautiful pilot's strike during a recession. Yeah, that'll be fun to watch next year as their stock price crashes. Maybe Delta Air Lines will be so devalued a certain Seattle airline with labor peace and honour can buy them out and clean house.
#367
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 181
#368
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 20
There is a massive disconnect between the forums and what I'm hearing in real life. Of 20+ pilots I've personally talked to only 2 are no and 1 undecided the rest yes. Which I makes sense as it was unanimous yes vote from the MEC.
I just never realized just how toxic the people who continously post on forums(including Alyeska) are until this TA. I honestly hate to agree with OTZ. But he's right. 70-80% yes vote. The low first year pay raise makes me think the company isn't as concerned with attrition as you all are. After reading executive summary and listening to every podcast I'm realizing how great our MEC and NC did. Industry leading in multiple areas. Congrats to all and enjoy the new work rules.
I just never realized just how toxic the people who continously post on forums(including Alyeska) are until this TA. I honestly hate to agree with OTZ. But he's right. 70-80% yes vote. The low first year pay raise makes me think the company isn't as concerned with attrition as you all are. After reading executive summary and listening to every podcast I'm realizing how great our MEC and NC did. Industry leading in multiple areas. Congrats to all and enjoy the new work rules.
Because who wants to strike during a recession?
It'll be joyful watching the upcoming Delta Air Lines pilots' strike movie next year. Be great to see a real, live pilot's strike with Delta Air Lines stock price making a beautiful dive. Maybe to the point that the adults of Alaska Airlines are asked to step in and take over.
Southwest Airlines is about a year or two from multiple strikes. Pilots and FAs are fed up.
I would really read Simple Flying, the Seattle Times and spend some time on Twitter to get the lay of the land.
Please pilots take this deal. Solves your issues.
#369
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 694
No sir….. your history is incorrect. The way “we” fell behind the industry is:
A. Majority of Alaska pilots in the past being just as siloed as management thinking like a regional carrier.
B. Management infiltration of MEC leadership
C. No strike clause/binding arbitration
D. Overall “mom and pop” paradigm in the past that we’re just all one big happy family.
Im incredibly sympathetic to the the “once in a lifetime” argument. I’ve waited 35 years to see the “pilot shortage” happen. But, to be clear, our deficit at Alaska is not what it is at our competitors. The apex of our negotiating power prob was just at pre Covid. And the idea that the Democratic Party is “pro labor” died when Clinton signed NAFTA.
A. Majority of Alaska pilots in the past being just as siloed as management thinking like a regional carrier.
B. Management infiltration of MEC leadership
C. No strike clause/binding arbitration
D. Overall “mom and pop” paradigm in the past that we’re just all one big happy family.
Im incredibly sympathetic to the the “once in a lifetime” argument. I’ve waited 35 years to see the “pilot shortage” happen. But, to be clear, our deficit at Alaska is not what it is at our competitors. The apex of our negotiating power prob was just at pre Covid. And the idea that the Democratic Party is “pro labor” died when Clinton signed NAFTA.
#370
Well all the pilots' union presidents are checking in on one another.
Delta just sent a strike authorization ballot out.
Southwest is gonna go to the matresses because their management is asleep in the cockpit or worse. Herb Kelleher is NOT resting in peace right now, I can tell you that from the Simple Flying articles I read on the crisis.
United and American aren't far behind.
Swift and JetBlue... going to be interesting.
Everybody's hoping Alaska's TA gets ratified. It solves many of Alaska's problems and will put a boot in the a$$ of the other airlines to get to a deal instead of stall, sleep or whatnot. SWAPA's Casey Murray can't be everywhere doing tiger stuff, you know?
If I had a vote I'd pass this TA with a smile. The economy is about to go the wrong way. This deal has a good scope deal. This deal ends the Alaska discount. This deal fixes scheduling. This TA will end the nonsense and put a boot up management's a$$ to take care of the angels in back quickly. Alaska Airlines can then just smirk and smile and salute as Southwest Airlines gets into more trouble.
Oh and Delta Air Lines? Let 'em Airbust into a beautiful pilot's strike during a recession. Yeah, that'll be fun to watch next year as their stock price crashes. Maybe Delta Air Lines will be so devalued a certain Seattle airline with labor peace and honour can buy them out and clean house.
Delta just sent a strike authorization ballot out.
Southwest is gonna go to the matresses because their management is asleep in the cockpit or worse. Herb Kelleher is NOT resting in peace right now, I can tell you that from the Simple Flying articles I read on the crisis.
United and American aren't far behind.
Swift and JetBlue... going to be interesting.
Everybody's hoping Alaska's TA gets ratified. It solves many of Alaska's problems and will put a boot in the a$$ of the other airlines to get to a deal instead of stall, sleep or whatnot. SWAPA's Casey Murray can't be everywhere doing tiger stuff, you know?
If I had a vote I'd pass this TA with a smile. The economy is about to go the wrong way. This deal has a good scope deal. This deal ends the Alaska discount. This deal fixes scheduling. This TA will end the nonsense and put a boot up management's a$$ to take care of the angels in back quickly. Alaska Airlines can then just smirk and smile and salute as Southwest Airlines gets into more trouble.
Oh and Delta Air Lines? Let 'em Airbust into a beautiful pilot's strike during a recession. Yeah, that'll be fun to watch next year as their stock price crashes. Maybe Delta Air Lines will be so devalued a certain Seattle airline with labor peace and honour can buy them out and clean house.