TA is here
09-24-2022, 01:09 PM
#231
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,933
For the no votes, what do you envision?
Unanimously voted TA means first you’d have to vote out the MEC and NC. Then you’d have to get new people in those roles. Who? What we have are the best and I can’t imagine anyone else stepping up that’s gonna somehow be even better (and I certainly don’t want an Alyeska or APC hothead in the NC or MEC). I can’t think of a single name I’d like to see better on the NC.
And then what direction do you envision them taking? I don’t know how many no votes we have. But say 51% vote no. That’s something like 1,300 voices that are not happy. What do these 1,300 want and expect for the next time around? Rsv 13 days off? Hourly rate 306 to 320? Full retro? What if you get none? Or just 1? Or 2? Where is your line drawn for how good this TA gets improved that you vote yes?
The ALPA EFA team worked with our NC team and they fully painted a picture of the economic and financial picture - it’s their job!
I have yet to hear a good reason why a no voter thinks 6 months from now makes for a good negotiating environment. Yeah Delta voted their TA1 down in 2015 and got a new one a short while later. But 2015 and 2016 were great years for the economy (minus the one dip in the DOW and S&P). We are nowhere near that sort of economy. This administration and Powell have made it CLEAR they will raise interest rates and control crash this economy to a landing (they aren’t even saying soft landing any more). Another raise in November. Another in Q1. And then hold that level (maybe even more raises) until inflation decreases and demand dampens, and *hope* that supply chains open up (like China not doing zero Covid policy, Ukraine v Russia gets better, etc). We are literally headed off the cliff in terms of a good environment to negotiate. I genuinely ask what sort of leverage do you see to get whatever it is that would get you to vote yes to this in a TA#2. I think we can all agree no scenario makes 3300 pilots happy. I question what is enough to make the no pilots happy in round 2 during the worst economy to negotiate in.
prdu you’ll call me defeatist, I call it realist after looking at the economic conditions we face and considering that the EFA vetted our current deal.
Unanimously voted TA means first you’d have to vote out the MEC and NC. Then you’d have to get new people in those roles. Who? What we have are the best and I can’t imagine anyone else stepping up that’s gonna somehow be even better (and I certainly don’t want an Alyeska or APC hothead in the NC or MEC). I can’t think of a single name I’d like to see better on the NC.
And then what direction do you envision them taking? I don’t know how many no votes we have. But say 51% vote no. That’s something like 1,300 voices that are not happy. What do these 1,300 want and expect for the next time around? Rsv 13 days off? Hourly rate 306 to 320? Full retro? What if you get none? Or just 1? Or 2? Where is your line drawn for how good this TA gets improved that you vote yes?
The ALPA EFA team worked with our NC team and they fully painted a picture of the economic and financial picture - it’s their job!
I have yet to hear a good reason why a no voter thinks 6 months from now makes for a good negotiating environment. Yeah Delta voted their TA1 down in 2015 and got a new one a short while later. But 2015 and 2016 were great years for the economy (minus the one dip in the DOW and S&P). We are nowhere near that sort of economy. This administration and Powell have made it CLEAR they will raise interest rates and control crash this economy to a landing (they aren’t even saying soft landing any more). Another raise in November. Another in Q1. And then hold that level (maybe even more raises) until inflation decreases and demand dampens, and *hope* that supply chains open up (like China not doing zero Covid policy, Ukraine v Russia gets better, etc). We are literally headed off the cliff in terms of a good environment to negotiate. I genuinely ask what sort of leverage do you see to get whatever it is that would get you to vote yes to this in a TA#2. I think we can all agree no scenario makes 3300 pilots happy. I question what is enough to make the no pilots happy in round 2 during the worst economy to negotiate in.
prdu you’ll call me defeatist, I call it realist after looking at the economic conditions we face and considering that the EFA vetted our current deal.
09-24-2022, 01:11 PM
#232
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 36
Wasn't bashing. Just restating things you said previously and they dont really help overall at times. If you really are an advocate for pilots being educated and making the right decision for them and their families, just encourage that idea. I agree some people need to hear the tough comments, but everyone needs to get the information from valid sources. Bashing your head against the wall is understandable, just as alpa has done after some of your back and forth. We need to help each other with information. Not pound our chest at who is right or wrong or point the finger at people for stupid comments. This would be a great tool to help educate and gain information, but most of the BS on here is embarrassing for all pilots and pilot groups.
09-24-2022, 01:14 PM
#233
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 36
For the no votes, what do you envision?
Unanimously voted TA means first you’d have to vote out the MEC and NC. Then you’d have to get new people in those roles. Who? What we have are the best and I can’t imagine anyone else stepping up that’s gonna somehow be even better (and I certainly don’t want an Alyeska or APC hothead in the NC or MEC). I can’t think of a single name I’d like to see better on the NC.
And then what direction do you envision them taking? I don’t know how many no votes we have. But say 51% vote no. That’s something like 1,300 voices that are not happy. What do these 1,300 want and expect for the next time around? Rsv 13 days off? Hourly rate 306 to 320? Full retro? What if you get none? Or just 1? Or 2? Where is your like drawn for how good this TA gets improved that you vote yes?
The ALPA EFA team worked with our NC team and they fully painted a picture of the economic and financial picture - it’s their job!
I have yet to hear a good reason why a no voter thinks 6 months from now makes for a good negotiating environment. Yeah Delta voted their TA1 down in 2015 and got a new one a short while later. But 2015 and 2016 were great years for the economy (minus the one dip in the DOW and S&P). We are nowhere near that sort of economy. This administration and Powell have made it CLEAR they will raise interest rates and control crash this economy to a landing (they aren’t even saying soft landing any more. Another raise in November. Another in Q1. And then hold that level (maybe even more raises) until inflation decreases and demand dampens, and *hope* that supply chains open up (like China not doing zero Covid policy, Ukraine v Russia gets better, etc). We are literally headed off the cliff in terms of a good environment to negotiate. I genuinely ask what sort of leverage do you see to get whatever it is that would get you to vote yes to this in a TA#2. I think we can all agree no scenario makes 3300 pilots happy. I question what is enough to make the no pilots happy in round 2 during the worst economy to negotiate in.
prdu you’ll call me defeatist, I call it realist after looking at the economic conditions we face and considering that the EFA vetted our current deal.
Unanimously voted TA means first you’d have to vote out the MEC and NC. Then you’d have to get new people in those roles. Who? What we have are the best and I can’t imagine anyone else stepping up that’s gonna somehow be even better (and I certainly don’t want an Alyeska or APC hothead in the NC or MEC). I can’t think of a single name I’d like to see better on the NC.
And then what direction do you envision them taking? I don’t know how many no votes we have. But say 51% vote no. That’s something like 1,300 voices that are not happy. What do these 1,300 want and expect for the next time around? Rsv 13 days off? Hourly rate 306 to 320? Full retro? What if you get none? Or just 1? Or 2? Where is your like drawn for how good this TA gets improved that you vote yes?
The ALPA EFA team worked with our NC team and they fully painted a picture of the economic and financial picture - it’s their job!
I have yet to hear a good reason why a no voter thinks 6 months from now makes for a good negotiating environment. Yeah Delta voted their TA1 down in 2015 and got a new one a short while later. But 2015 and 2016 were great years for the economy (minus the one dip in the DOW and S&P). We are nowhere near that sort of economy. This administration and Powell have made it CLEAR they will raise interest rates and control crash this economy to a landing (they aren’t even saying soft landing any more. Another raise in November. Another in Q1. And then hold that level (maybe even more raises) until inflation decreases and demand dampens, and *hope* that supply chains open up (like China not doing zero Covid policy, Ukraine v Russia gets better, etc). We are literally headed off the cliff in terms of a good environment to negotiate. I genuinely ask what sort of leverage do you see to get whatever it is that would get you to vote yes to this in a TA#2. I think we can all agree no scenario makes 3300 pilots happy. I question what is enough to make the no pilots happy in round 2 during the worst economy to negotiate in.
prdu you’ll call me defeatist, I call it realist after looking at the economic conditions we face and considering that the EFA vetted our current deal.
09-24-2022, 01:27 PM
#234
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,241
Same… Yup, I can 100% confirm that this is 100 percent correct. I heard everyone is leaving now. If this passes everyone will leave. I know ALPA did extensive polling, it was all wrong, company spent big bucks trying to decide what would allow us to move forward, all their info is bad. Me and my friends actually have the good info, if this passes, everyone leaves.😂🤭🙄
09-24-2022, 01:30 PM
#235
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,285
For the no votes, what do you envision?
Unanimously voted TA means first you’d have to vote out the MEC and NC. Then you’d have to get new people in those roles. Who? What we have are the best and I can’t imagine anyone else stepping up that’s gonna somehow be even better (and I certainly don’t want an Alyeska or APC hothead in the NC or MEC). I can’t think of a single name I’d like to see better on the NC.
Unanimously voted TA means first you’d have to vote out the MEC and NC. Then you’d have to get new people in those roles. Who? What we have are the best and I can’t imagine anyone else stepping up that’s gonna somehow be even better (and I certainly don’t want an Alyeska or APC hothead in the NC or MEC). I can’t think of a single name I’d like to see better on the NC.
Agree the union guys are top shelf, can't think of anyone better by a long shot.
Then what? Not a rhetorical question, seeking constructive thoughts.
Obviously need to ask the union guys what THEY think will happen post-No. They voted for this thing unanimously...
09-24-2022, 01:37 PM
#236
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,241
There's some uncertainty as to how it would play out post-No. I'd like to hear from folks who have lived that before.
Agree the union guys are top shelf, can't think of anyone better by a long shot.
They can also resign, either out of frustration or just a feeling that they've taken it as far as they can.
Then what? Not a rhetorical question, seeking constructive thoughts.
Obviously need to ask the union guys what THEY think will happen post-No. They voted for this thing unanimously...
Agree the union guys are top shelf, can't think of anyone better by a long shot.
They can also resign, either out of frustration or just a feeling that they've taken it as far as they can.
Then what? Not a rhetorical question, seeking constructive thoughts.
Obviously need to ask the union guys what THEY think will happen post-No. They voted for this thing unanimously...
09-24-2022, 01:38 PM
#237
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 36
There's some uncertainty as to how it would play out post-No. I'd like to hear from folks who have lived that before.
Agree the union guys are top shelf, can't think of anyone better by a long shot.
They can also resign, either out of frustration or just a feeling that they've taken it as far as they can.
Then what? Not a rhetorical question, seeking constructive thoughts.
Obviously need to ask the union guys what THEY think will happen post-No. They voted for this thing unanimously...
Agree the union guys are top shelf, can't think of anyone better by a long shot.
They can also resign, either out of frustration or just a feeling that they've taken it as far as they can.
Then what? Not a rhetorical question, seeking constructive thoughts.
Obviously need to ask the union guys what THEY think will happen post-No. They voted for this thing unanimously...
09-24-2022, 01:38 PM
#238
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 70
Same… Yup, I can 100% confirm that this is 100 percent correct. I heard everyone is leaving now. If this passes everyone will leave. I know ALPA did extensive polling, it was all wrong, company spent big bucks trying to decide what would allow us to move forward, all their info is bad. Me and my friends actually have the good info, if this passes, everyone leaves.😂🤭🙄
09-24-2022, 01:40 PM
#239
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Position: Boeing Necromancer
Posts: 85
We're all professionals (supposedly) here. Don't be getting upset over the criticism of the TA. People have legitimate concerns just as much as you want to sing it's praises. Take a break from APC OTZ.
