TA is here
#162
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,791
I'm a Southwest guy looking at this, and have a few questions because what you sign affects how negotiations go elsewhere...
1) Your signing bonus. Does this amount make you whole as a retro, or is this a fixed number that was agreed upon? Has anyone done any actual math on how much money the union is giving to the company by not insisting on full retro? Doesn't this signing bonus reward and entice the management to drag out negotiations even longer in the future?
2) I understand that you're trying to ride the coattails of other 5 major airlines when it comes to pay rates. Do you believe your TA'd rates are anywhere remotely close to market considering what the regionals are now making?
3) PBS controlled by ALPA. Do training and vacation get pre-awarded and then your line built to the bid window, or do you get your bid award first and then have training and vacation put on dropping the affected trips?
I'm not an Alaska guy, but if our NC at Southwest brought us something like this, I'd want them all recalled and replaced.
1) Your signing bonus. Does this amount make you whole as a retro, or is this a fixed number that was agreed upon? Has anyone done any actual math on how much money the union is giving to the company by not insisting on full retro? Doesn't this signing bonus reward and entice the management to drag out negotiations even longer in the future?
2) I understand that you're trying to ride the coattails of other 5 major airlines when it comes to pay rates. Do you believe your TA'd rates are anywhere remotely close to market considering what the regionals are now making?
3) PBS controlled by ALPA. Do training and vacation get pre-awarded and then your line built to the bid window, or do you get your bid award first and then have training and vacation put on dropping the affected trips?
I'm not an Alaska guy, but if our NC at Southwest brought us something like this, I'd want them all recalled and replaced.
#163
I’m guessing you haven’t been around the Angle Lake block for long. Everyone will vote with their pockets. This TA will most likely pass since this pilot group has a history of being the “Chicken Little sheep”. After the dust settles, everyone will claim to have voted NO. On a selfish level, I can make this TA work with my seniority, just like OCDPigeon himself. As a whole, we would be leaving more than you will ever know on the table if this TA passes.
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 685
We lost all advantages that Line bidding might have had over PBS a longgg time ago.
If Line Bidding is the horse and carriage, then Prefbid is the modern sports car, assuming you get the contract language right.
#165
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Position: A320 captain
Posts: 91
There are of course many other airline folks following with great interest.
In the interest of cutting out the APC noise someone should start a thread with a TA poll pinned to the top.
Also Spirit went from line bidding to PBS via NavBlue in 2018.
I have not once encountered one of our pilots that regrets that change.
One must learn how to use it though, but you'll have a lot of help with that.
In the interest of cutting out the APC noise someone should start a thread with a TA poll pinned to the top.
Also Spirit went from line bidding to PBS via NavBlue in 2018.
I have not once encountered one of our pilots that regrets that change.
One must learn how to use it though, but you'll have a lot of help with that.
#166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,823
I'm a Southwest guy looking at this, and have a few questions because what you sign affects how negotiations go elsewhere...
1) Your signing bonus. Does this amount make you whole as a retro, or is this a fixed number that was agreed upon? Has anyone done any actual math on how much money the union is giving to the company by not insisting on full retro? Doesn't this signing bonus reward and entice the management to drag out negotiations even longer in the future?
2) I understand that you're trying to ride the coattails of other 5 major airlines when it comes to pay rates. Do you believe your TA'd rates are anywhere remotely close to market considering what the regionals are now making?
3) PBS controlled by ALPA. Do training and vacation get pre-awarded and then your line built to the bid window, or do you get your bid award first and then have training and vacation put on dropping the affected trips?
I'm not an Alaska guy, but if our NC at Southwest brought us something like this, I'd want them all recalled and replaced.
1) Your signing bonus. Does this amount make you whole as a retro, or is this a fixed number that was agreed upon? Has anyone done any actual math on how much money the union is giving to the company by not insisting on full retro? Doesn't this signing bonus reward and entice the management to drag out negotiations even longer in the future?
2) I understand that you're trying to ride the coattails of other 5 major airlines when it comes to pay rates. Do you believe your TA'd rates are anywhere remotely close to market considering what the regionals are now making?
3) PBS controlled by ALPA. Do training and vacation get pre-awarded and then your line built to the bid window, or do you get your bid award first and then have training and vacation put on dropping the affected trips?
I'm not an Alaska guy, but if our NC at Southwest brought us something like this, I'd want them all recalled and replaced.
#167
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Posts: 17
Disappointed… however one has to stand back and take a deep breath. I would like to know from the NC why they thought this is a good deal. I have the feeling with all the input they received from Alpa, economic advisers, who went through this entire proposal this is the best they can negotiate at this time. Pilots can vote it down. What is known Is the current TA. What is unknown , will the group do better , voting it down, it might be another year, maybe two. If the economy gets really ugly no mediator will award the pilot group more than what has been currently negotiated, or release for self help. The alaska pilots know , how management works. One can ask for the sky, but did anybody seriously believe , that we can negotiate 350$ or more an hour, 150k retro or more, 14 days off on RSV…. Is it deserved.. absolutely, realistic, no. It is what it is, alaska will never be a on top of the pay scale or work rules. If the pilot hiring environment is as good as it is , pilots need to sit down and do the math and make a choice if it’s worth staying employed with Alaska. It’s a free country. Not saying vote yes, but be aware who you work for, how they operate and how a no vote will improve one’s life. Be careful how you play your cards.
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,823
Disappointed… however one has to stand back and take a deep breath. I would like to know from the NC why they thought this is a good deal. I have the feeling with all the input they received from Alpa, economic advisers, who went through this entire proposal this is the best they can negotiate at this time. Pilots can vote it down. What is known Is the current TA. What is unknown , will the group do better , voting it down, it might be another year, maybe two. If the economy gets really ugly no mediator will award the pilot group more than what has been currently negotiated, or release for self help. The alaska pilots know , how management works. One can ask for the sky, but did anybody seriously believe , that we can negotiate 350$ or more an hour, 150k retro or more, 14 days off on RSV…. Is it deserved.. absolutely, realistic, no. It is what it is, alaska will never be a on top of the pay scale or work rules. If the pilot hiring environment is as good as it is , pilots need to sit down and do the math and make a choice if it’s worth staying employed with Alaska. It’s a free country. Not saying vote yes, but be aware who you work for, how they operate and how a no vote will improve one’s life. Be careful how you play your cards.
#170
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Posts: 17
Nowhere did I say to have a defeatist attitude. I did not say vote yes. I mentioned , and I assume you work at alaska , you know, how they operate. I said be a realist and understand about what you know now and what you don’t know, and make a decision what is best for you.