LJCub

Is this guy serious?

If even the self proclaimed smartest know-it-all doesn't even know now how our "snap up" was a fail...

Yes, we'll be at $318 or whatever the Union can hopefully get from the Company on 9/1/23 when our real peers are at $360 a few months later.

We'll keep our fingers crossed. But if that is a shock to you, just wait until 1/1/25 and 1/1/26.

Oh, we'll be up for negations again? How long does that typically last? Oh, it's a different environment? Then why all the recession talk and caving into the Company when we signed 13 months ago?

Oh, it's all emotional? Nah, just facts. Facts that are costing me thousands of dollars a month

I'll glad you got your's though

Everyone else, vote accordingly next cycle so we don't have to keep doing this again

GoodJet

Ouch. If the truth hurts was a post on APC...

CordovaCA

Yeah not a great look. 360 will put us 42 dollars behind. Hoping for a productive week in negotiations. Otherwise we will lag the industry at the largest pay disparity in Alaska history. The timing of everything couldn't be worse for the sub par snap up. Management could really make out like bandits, but let's hope they make a small gesture of good will to keep the upward trajectory of pilot morale going.

airb320

According to my UA buddy, they are hoping to open vote on 09/07 and finish on 09/29… so, UA is out😳

Jetlikespeed

I think shy is getting at with negotiations this week if the company agrees to count the other companies current TAs as the rates for snap up. But the issue is sou’wester being 284 or 285 after tfp conversions kills the snap up and drags the average down.

even if the company was being “nice” and allowed us to use current ta rates for snap up we would not snap up much due to sou’wester dragging the average down

ShyGuy

And what's jetBlue and Southwest on Jan 1? Still 330 and 285?



Nothing is "Costing you thousands of dollars a month" because you don't work there. Sounds like you should get your apps to AA, DL, or UA pronto.

ShyGuy

With an average of the 5 carriers, you'd have to have 4 of the 5 carriers to have new contracts in order to see higher than $318. If 2 carriers aren't counting towards the average, then 3 out of 5 isn't enough on the average scale to snap higher than $318.

jetBlue is $330, one could see a case for the company from their own good will matching jetBlue for Sept 1 for the next 12 months.

ReluctantEskimo

Nothing more disingenuous than the guy who constantly brings up the golden handcuffs of seniority recommending to others to start over. And you should know that a poorly worded me too clause is the entire reason we're having this discussion. Definitely costly.

I don't understand why you're trying to "sort of" apply the logic of the snap language. Why? It's out the window. It doesn't work. The spirit of the snap was to "keep pace." You're just conjuring up rules out of thin air to make yourself sound smarter than you are.

ShyGuy

Difference is I'm not complaining about my predicament. And I was NYC based, and us ~115 guys had it worse than any of the other 2600ish. Straight up fact.



It's NOT a me-too clause. I don't know why your side keeps bringing this up over and over again. From all the podcasts and union gatherings I attended, it was clear the aim was trying for an industry average contract, not an industry leading contract. The provision is an average provision of taking the big 4 (or 5 if jetBlue signed, which it did), divided by 5, and that would be your rate. The problem is two airlines, United and Southwest don't seem to be completing by Sept 1 of this year. United looks like will be closing in October which misses the deadline of Sept 1.


As for the Jan effective date, I see what you mean. That's a product of Delta signing in March, with rates dating back to Jan 1. So ours kicks up September of 2022, 2023, 2024, while Delta gets theirs Jan of 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026, etc. I don't see anything nefarious here, it's a product of when the contract was signed, and then back-pay to a couple months. Eg, our contract was effective Nov 1 for a lot of parts, but back paid to Aug 1.

This is all revisionist history at this point. I don't ever recall pilots I came across saying "I want Delta pay plus 1%." Now it seems to be the case, after they signed theirs.


Sept 1 worse case 318, better case AS management counts United and we get 327, or best case scenario management steps up to the plate and offers 330-335 from good will. Then Sept 1 next year 2024, industry average formula gets about 350-355ish. Then what? According to your side, come Sept 1, 2025, we should stall and delay our new contract right? Let Delta and United go first. So we delay and delay and stay at 350ish until Delta and United declare the next new values for pay.

ShyGuy

And for what it's worth, I wanted a 5 yr contract. Not a 3 yr contract. But way too many people were vocal about NOT wanting a long duration contract. At least with a 5 yr contract, you'd get industry average up in 2025 and 2026.

And THAT is when Delta/American/United would be "going first" and establishing the new industry payrates. As it stands, we will go first - again. Rinse/repeat the angry complaints then.