Alaska General Discussion
09-07-2022, 11:56 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 910
No it doesn't, not everything has to be an emotional decision. It's a factual call. Left vs right, the deciding factor will be the wind. I'd rather turn upwind than downwind to get around the storm. That decision is not based on emotion, but facts known about weather behavior.
Again, this is an emotional response. You've seen Horizon get $215/hr and your emotional response to that is wanting 450/hr. That's not how this works. You're staying. Most people at Horizon are not. The only ones making 215/hr there will be their senior lifers who aren't leaving. No one entering Horizon is going to stick around to see 18th year pay. On that note, there's a reason Envoy checkairman are getting 400/hr with their override. Once they become checkairman, they aren't sticking around and leave for a legacy carrier. Envoy has no one then to check and train their pilots. So to keep them, they have to offer unheard of numbers because the goal is to get those checkairman to stay for X amount of time before they bail. Alaska doesn't need to do any of this. All they need to do is offer just enough to stem attrition lower than what it currently is. What pay rate would that entail? I'll let the experts figure that out.
I take emotion out of it, I've long said this whole ordeal is "just business, nothing personal." What am I worth? I'll let our ALPA experts in that field make that final call. They are trained in these things. Our Economic and Financial Analysis (EFA) team looks at the current economy, projected economy, current market rates, current company financial condition, projected financial condition, etc. They look at a host of factors and are able to guide our NC and come up with a rate for us. I trust them to do their job.
I take emotion out of it, I've long said this whole ordeal is "just business, nothing personal." What am I worth? I'll let our ALPA experts in that field make that final call. They are trained in these things. Our Economic and Financial Analysis (EFA) team looks at the current economy, projected economy, current market rates, current company financial condition, projected financial condition, etc. They look at a host of factors and are able to guide our NC and come up with a rate for us. I trust them to do their job.
You need to come to terms that you are equally emotional. Your motivations are that that you don't want to see any more delay. Rubber stamping the MEC TA is the quickest way is to achieve those (emotional) ends.
We have one time to get this right for the next decade. Let's make sure we get it right the first time.
Last edited by flyprdu; 09-08-2022 at 12:19 AM.
09-08-2022, 02:56 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,914
“You need to come to terms that you are equally emotional. Your motivations are that that you don't want to see any more delay. Rubber stamping the MEC TA is the quickest way is to achieve those (emotional) ends.”
This is not true. Every phone poll I got asked when I expected a TA. My answer has been 2024. And that I’m budgeting on current book for that timeframe. I’m in no rush to get a TA. I’d rather they spend the time and get it done right. The current contract is outdated, but I still use this outdated contract to maximize my time at home and credit for when I’m at work. It isn’t perfect but until we get a new TA, I work the system to my advantage. I’ve removed all emotions from this process. Some talk about how they hate us, bad culture, I just think it’s a corporate company doing corporate stuff and that it is just business, nothing personal. I’d rather they both get the issues worked out and present a good TA. Whether that’s next month or 2 yrs from now, I’m okay with it either way. I don’t know why you think I’m emotionally vested to get a TA signed ASAP.
This is not true. Every phone poll I got asked when I expected a TA. My answer has been 2024. And that I’m budgeting on current book for that timeframe. I’m in no rush to get a TA. I’d rather they spend the time and get it done right. The current contract is outdated, but I still use this outdated contract to maximize my time at home and credit for when I’m at work. It isn’t perfect but until we get a new TA, I work the system to my advantage. I’ve removed all emotions from this process. Some talk about how they hate us, bad culture, I just think it’s a corporate company doing corporate stuff and that it is just business, nothing personal. I’d rather they both get the issues worked out and present a good TA. Whether that’s next month or 2 yrs from now, I’m okay with it either way. I don’t know why you think I’m emotionally vested to get a TA signed ASAP.
09-08-2022, 06:43 AM
#53
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,016
Yes emotions play into decision making
If you try to influence someone's emotions with your own, you'll probably just pizz them off. Unless you're a skilled politician or con man, then you can lie all day and half the night and get away with it.
For most of us facts and data are a better means of persuasion.
Also just because someone has different desires vis a vis a CBA doesn't mean they are wrong. Just different priorities... the union has to weigh member inputs and polling and strike the right balance.
If you try to influence someone's emotions with your own, you'll probably just pizz them off. Unless you're a skilled politician or con man, then you can lie all day and half the night and get away with it.
For most of us facts and data are a better means of persuasion.
Also just because someone has different desires vis a vis a CBA doesn't mean they are wrong. Just different priorities... the union has to weigh member inputs and polling and strike the right balance.
09-08-2022, 02:22 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 910
Yes emotions play into decision making
If you try to influence someone's emotions with your own, you'll probably just pizz them off. Unless you're a skilled politician or con man, then you can lie all day and half the night and get away with it.
For most of us facts and data are a better means of persuasion.
Also just because someone has different desires vis a vis a CBA doesn't mean they are wrong. Just different priorities... the union has to weigh member inputs and polling and strike the right balance.
If you try to influence someone's emotions with your own, you'll probably just pizz them off. Unless you're a skilled politician or con man, then you can lie all day and half the night and get away with it.
For most of us facts and data are a better means of persuasion.
Also just because someone has different desires vis a vis a CBA doesn't mean they are wrong. Just different priorities... the union has to weigh member inputs and polling and strike the right balance.
To wit: I submit the thesis of one William Ray Valentine, esq.
https://youtu.be/uI4fVgVVpiw
09-08-2022, 03:42 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 910
Facts and data might work in the operation of aircraft, but in sales and negotiations? Naw, that's all people.
To wit: I submit the thesis of one William Ray Valentine, esq.
https://youtu.be/uI4fVgVVpiw
To wit: I submit the thesis of one William Ray Valentine, esq.
https://youtu.be/uI4fVgVVpiw
09-09-2022, 11:03 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: 737 tiller master
Posts: 288
09-09-2022, 02:15 PM
#58
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Fully Retired
Posts: 7,000
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