GoodJet

Absolutely not. But thanks for trying to start a purse fight online. Management is causing this reduction and likely downgrades and reduced QOL on both seats for jr pilots. It’s not any pilots fault. I don’t even see how this would be a reasonable take on what I mentioned but hey it’s APC after all…

I’d say a reasonable way to avoid this would be to slow the roll on the bus wind down. Ideally growing the LAX base in line to replace the bus. The most reasonable explanation as to why this reduction bid is going the way it’s going is management does not care about the pilot group or even pilot retention for that matter.

But way to make about infighting.

Av8rRr

They should start to care. Not that they will. But they’re making Alaska look like the worst airline to go to in the industry right about now.

echelon

🙄 Right, nobody has any leverage, definitely not Delta, who doesn't have anything remotely close to our attrition/attraction/retention problems... So how do you explain how they nonetheless managed to negotiate QOL and pay gains that blow our new contract out of the water?

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ShyGuy

Because that’s Delta. $320/hr 777 top Capt rate prior to 9/11.


Historically speaking, the big legacy carriers have always had higher payrates, except for the post 9/11 BK era when SW ruled.

ShyGuy

But don’t worry, next they’ll offer Delta +1

Av8rRr

The reason we’re not is because of guys like you settling for less. You could easily flip the script. Instead you choose to say that your pilot group isn’t worthy of it. Tough to see.

LJCub

Completely honest rational question. No emotion behind it as you are often concerned about.

Alaska went first.

As a young Shy was sitting around in the fall of 2022 with no other comparable airlines having a new contract, would you have voted for the company's proposal of $280 or did you think you deserved more?

I'd like you to publicly state what you would've done

Fair enough?

9mikemike

The problem has no cure. We are ending up as a single fleet type with one mega base and 4 sub-bases that have very little origination flying. All of it in the same time zone. (ANC is essentially in the same time zone).
There is nothing more stagnating to pilot seniority than being all on the same line. The full impact of the merger is landing on Oct 1st.

ShyGuy

Right. Because I went to mgt and said hey let’s just keep things status quo.

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No, I wouldn’t have voted yes for $280. That was at the time lower than the industry $285ish the legacy carriers had. Our new contract had to exceed those, $306 was fine for a start, but also realizing the big 3 airlines would get a higher number once they got their new contract. $280 would be silly. AS launched the new cycle of pilot contracts. It obviously had to go above the industry $285 at the time (and apparently still the case).

We can argue about the average snap ups all day long. I’d rather have it than not. Who would have predicted UA would take this long? 2023 will most likely be a wash and go to $318 but 2024 should be a nice/decent bump above $331.

av8or

Anyone thinking about coming to Alaska or young enough to consider leaving…. 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼THIS is just unfiltered truth. It just is what it is. Doesn’t mean we can’t keep trying to push forward in the next contract negotiation… we absolutely should… but, at the end of the day, although by no measure is Alaska a bad job or a bad flying job (anyone who tells you it is is either incredibly entitled, or never done any “hard” work in their life) but, compared to any airline in our “peer group” (even American depending on what you want out of a flying job), we are and will continue to be the bottom.

We got a slight reprieve with the new contract implementation, as it temp slowed attrition, but, as of now, we STILL don’t have adequate reserves and now since we agreed to an MOU that won’t allow trading out of a redeye into anything other that another redeye, trip trading is still horrible. LAX, the most commutable base has been shrunk to the point that, it’s still the most commutable, but also the lousiest pairings/trips. What’s left of LAX is soon about to experience a backward slide in seniority because of the Airbus dump. SFO expansion is a non-starter unless you live in base or happen to have a (rare) commutable city. And Alaska philosophy of “growth” is the unwavering “more seats, more frequency, more Seattle”.

As an aside, you’ll quite possibly be wearing the stupidest pilot uniform ever created in the near future.

Now, if you’re cool with that… long term, short term, whatever… come on… we’ll get ready for the next negotiation. Otherwise, do yourself a favor and set your sights higher. It just is what it is, and the union, even a strong one, won’t change the fundamentals of why we’re last.

We DO make money. Lot’s of it. So, there is THAT.