LJCub

It's definitely more than the same 7-8 voices.

And here's a newsflash, it's gonna get louder when guys start realizing we're falling behind even further after the much anticipated 2024 snap up.

The smugness gets old.If APC is lame, maybe quit lurking on Alyeska and post with your actual name your viewpoints instead of hiding. We won't bite.

GoodJet

With 50 or so additional demotions for JR captains in store because MGMT “forgot” to include LCAs et al from the bus side things are gonna get real ugly. All those demotions are going to come a month after we don’t snap up due to averaging.

With optics like these I don’t see our attrition numbers getting better I see them getting way worse.

Jetlikespeed

my guess is there will be another LOA (yes another LOA, we seem to love LOAs that can be canceled within 60 days instead of permanent language ) of something about short downgrade but keep Captain pay as the next bid will have “lots of upgrades!”

or some carrot I don’t know what carrot but I bet loa with some carrot.

Attritions only gonna get worse if we downgrade when United has captains after 1 year in LA, why commute to SF to be captain when you go to United drive to work and get paid more when they get their new contract

ShyGuy

I'm not anonymous here, most know who I am. Not that I care anymore.

The reality is the snap up is made as a one-time industry AVERAGE increase. When United voted TA1 down, the loud ones said it would only be a 2 week turnaround and they'll be back at the table and get TA2. It's been a year now. No one would have guessed UA and SW would have dragged their feet this long. So yes, the way it reads it is an industry average by Sept 1. AA, DL, UA, SW, B6 and divided by 5. Now I will admit, the sad thing is some carriers will get a contract missing the Sept 1 deadline, but have a back-pay date and therefore get their new DOS rate for a time period before Sept 1. That is unfortunate for us and we'll miss it. But it is what it is. Hate your NC - or even better - be upset at UA and SW for not being able to pull up their weight after so long.

Sept 2024 will be a significant step up. By then, Delta is 350+ and I'd imagine the others will be similar (maybe except jetBlue, they go 330 on Aug 1 and don't know what happens next year). That step will most likely take AS from 331 to 350ish.

Why delay? Leave for that now. Every day wasted is another day of lost seniority. UA has hired 3000+ since 2021 post pandemic.

Av8rRr

This last part is exactly why Alaska will never be at the top. And to add to your first part, I’ll take the NC for botching this one up royally.

ReluctantEskimo

This is false. Delta will be at 351. American at 351. United and Southwest will still be on year 1 DOS, so 335ish each. And JetBlue will still be stuck at 330.

$340.40.


And Delta goes to $368 three months later. We really negotiated some great snapping action.

rickair7777

After 2024 it's back to the table, because the contract expires. I'm sure they could have got a ten-year CBA with annual 2% raises. But I think in this climate the safer bet was to go with shorter not longer. So lots of QOL enhancements and the opportunity to renegotiate after this cycle is done and the NC knows the lay of the land. Also nobody ever mentions scope anymore, like you've had that since the 1930's

Everybody but the company knows who he is, probably wants to keep it that way.

ShyGuy

Assuming those are the rates and assuming your assertion about SW and UA being 335 on Sept 2024, then yes Alaska will still get an industry average snap. What are we arguing? That it isn’t Delta+1? You are right. It isn’t.


266/285 = 93%

341/368 = 93%

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Although it’s not a fair comparison when you go to Delta 368 which is a 2025 rate. Our contract doesn’t go that long in terms of payrates. Presumably, we’re in negotiations by end of 2024 and looking at the new market. Then it’s up to mgt and how long they think they can stall. If attrition is an issue, you’ll see something sooner.

Av8rRr

Alaska should absolutely be Delta +1. Or +1 to whoever is the highest. No date, just whenever they go higher, so do we. Our NC dropped the ball on that big time. Maybe Alaska pilots will learn from their mistakes next time. Being average and less than others is a normal thing around this place. Wish that would change. Looking at the other contracts, presumably they’ll make more than we ever did, even with us signing ahead of them. Just talked to a ten year guy leaving for United in the coming months. Doesn’t look good for the Eskimo.

ReluctantEskimo

This is false again. Alaska's contract is not amendable until Sep 1, 2025. So it is absolutely fair to compare rates within 3 months of each other. Calendar year is an irrelevant metric. You're the only person who mentions it.

It baffles me how vigorously you defend this contract without even knowing it.