Cruz5350

A lot of people felt very strongly about the state of the negotiations and voiced their concerns and opinions but were met with lackluster responses. Why do you think so many have left and continue to leave?

OTZeagle1

It’s really only two reasons people are leaving anymore… bases and wide bodies.

ShyGuy

Simple.

Being junior here, low seniority to give up, young pilot group here meaning slow move up the seniority list, retirements at larger airlines better, bigger aircraft widebody payrates, and a much better variety of pilot bases. Notice how NONE of the things I wrote were about pay and QOL here. You can justify it however you like, but the truth remains those items I just wrote are the primary drivers. The SAME reality is true at other major/LCCs: jetBlue, Spirit, Frontier, and even Southwest. They are having the same attrition issues.

1. Fact is if you are below age 40, with ~5 yrs or less seniority at any of those majors/LCCs including Alaska, why the heck would you stay here?

2. And put another way, if you are a RJ guy in your 20s and 30s looking at the majors, why would you go anywhere other than the big 3 AA, DL, UA?

Sorry but if I was in my 20s and at a regional, even if AS paid 400/hr I would still go the big 3.

Pay and QOL at AS, B6, NK, and F9 CANNOT make up for lower retirements, young pilot group, lack of widebodies, and lack of movement up the seniority list.

Cruz5350

Yea that's only half of it, because for the vast majority of folks they wont see much of a widebody career at those airlines as well. Keep thinking it's only about big jets and slightly more retirements...

ShyGuy

Times have changed. Newhires are being forced the 777 and 757/767 at United. Delta LAX 75/767 CA went to a pandemic DOH 03/2020. Those who are willing to take the first spot can get widebody FO spots fairly quickly. AA and UA widebody CAs still going senior but Delta has a mixed narrowbody/widebody group of the the 757/767 and that's apparently been going junior.

And that's NOT just "only half of it." People in their 20s and 30s are deciding where to work at for their remaining 25-40 yrs of their career. You'd be silly to not consider all the factors that are BEYOND just pay.

Lets take a DOH today May 2023 at AS, B6, NK, and F9. And a DOH today May 2023 at AA, DL, and UA. What's the relative seniority of this guy at 5 yrs from now in 2028? And then 10 yr total at 2033? He'll do 2x as good in terms of movement up the seniority list at the big 3 than at any National major/LCC. It's a simple numbers game - and I don't mean pay.

ShyGuy

Wait, why am I arguing with you Cruz? You left AS for the big 3.

Be honest, what's your age and how many yrs here did you give up?

G650guy

OTZ,


Good to see you here again. Just wondering if you had any updates on the merger?

Av8rRr

This is good 🤣

Avgeek7248

people are leaving for a lot more reasons then just those two. Faster seniority movement, better contract, better schedules, better pay, better QOL, more retirements, and actual growth just to make a few…

Carebear

Yes it’s so amazing there. Global reserve at United is amazing.