Alaska General Discussion
09-23-2022, 07:04 AM
#141
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: The Jet
Posts: 1,070
100% agree, and couldn't possibly agree more. Everyone should absolutely wait until the package comes out before they even have an opinion on it. Having preconceived absolutes is already shooting yourself in the foot. If the union has to sell us on it, then something is wrong.
09-23-2022, 07:41 AM
#142
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,031
100% agree, and couldn't possibly agree more. Everyone should absolutely wait until the package comes out before they even have an opinion on it. Having preconceived absolutes is already shooting yourself in the foot. If the union has to sell us on it, then something is wrong.
Occasionally an MEC will send a turd to the members as a strategic ploy... if the company won't believe the union that it's going to take X,Y, and Z then maybe they'll believe a resounding no vote. In theory it shouldn't come to that since if mediation fails then self-help should be next up, but we all know how long and windy that road is. But I don't think this will come to that, the company already got the message loud and clear... from UALs background checkers if nothing else.
09-23-2022, 08:01 AM
#143
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: The Jet
Posts: 1,070
There's a fine line between education and selling. They will need to educate the group, and it's just human nature that if the reps liked it enough to send it to the members, that they are *probably* mostly in favor. Don't hold it against them if someone comes across enthusiastic.
Occasionally an MEC will send a turd to the members as a strategic ploy... if the company won't believe the union that it's going to take X,Y, and Z then maybe they'll believe a resounding no vote. In theory it shouldn't come to that since if mediation fails then self-help should be next up, but we all know how long and windy that road is. But I don't think this will come to that, the company already got the message loud and clear... from UALs background checkers if nothing else.
Occasionally an MEC will send a turd to the members as a strategic ploy... if the company won't believe the union that it's going to take X,Y, and Z then maybe they'll believe a resounding no vote. In theory it shouldn't come to that since if mediation fails then self-help should be next up, but we all know how long and windy that road is. But I don't think this will come to that, the company already got the message loud and clear... from UALs background checkers if nothing else.
Educating the group on the specifics of the contract is much different than "you guys should vote yes because this is amazing, and it's all you're gonna get".
The truth is, the AIP and eventual TA will have to solve two problems. First is that it needs to be good enough to make the current pilot group whole, and it needs to address the issues we asked for. Second, it needs to stop the attrition AND be attractive enough to get pilots to interview. We lost more than we gained last month, that isn't a sustainable business model. The union knows that all too well, but I think management knows this too. I think we are really really close on an AIP, and the fact that it is taking longer than we want is actually a good thing.
09-23-2022, 08:28 AM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Precarious
Posts: 387
I'd like to see a contract comparison document similar to what the union put out early in negotiations, but updated with our TA side by side and section by section compared with our peers. There should be no need for a sales pitch, just simple comparison section by section.
09-23-2022, 09:33 AM
#145
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: The Jet
Posts: 1,070
I'd like to see a contract comparison document similar to what the union put out early in negotiations, but updated with our TA side by side and section by section compared with our peers. There should be no need for a sales pitch, just simple comparison section by section.
09-23-2022, 11:53 AM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,914
Not sure how helpful that is when we are the first "legacy" to get a new contract in 2022. United's TA failed. Any contract comparison will put our 2022 TA next to legacy contracts from 2015-2018. Correct?
Or are we saying things are so bad we just want to make sure we make and/or exceed what 2015-2018 legacy contracts have?
Or are we saying things are so bad we just want to make sure we make and/or exceed what 2015-2018 legacy contracts have?
09-23-2022, 11:56 AM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 488
Not sure how helpful that is when we are the first "legacy" to get a new contract in 2022. United's TA failed. Any contract comparison will put our 2022 TA next to legacy contracts from 2015-2018. Correct?
Or are we saying things are so bad we just want to make sure we make and/or exceed what 2015-2018 legacy contracts have?
Or are we saying things are so bad we just want to make sure we make and/or exceed what 2015-2018 legacy contracts have?
09-23-2022, 12:32 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Precarious
Posts: 387
Not sure how helpful that is when we are the first "legacy" to get a new contract in 2022. United's TA failed. Any contract comparison will put our 2022 TA next to legacy contracts from 2015-2018. Correct?
Or are we saying things are so bad we just want to make sure we make and/or exceed what 2015-2018 legacy contracts have?
Or are we saying things are so bad we just want to make sure we make and/or exceed what 2015-2018 legacy contracts have?
09-23-2022, 01:22 PM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,914
Was just saying. The United TA came out and the online outsider crowd lost it. “This is what a real airline looks like!” “CEO is smart!”
It wasn’t until the United pilots looked at it and asked if this TA was a joke, that the fawning over the TA died away. While I am encouraged that the union will release a comparison document from 2015-2018 contracts, I know that’s no longer 2022 market conditions and have my own internal metrics of what is good or not good - as I’m sure you do too.
It wasn’t until the United pilots looked at it and asked if this TA was a joke, that the fawning over the TA died away. While I am encouraged that the union will release a comparison document from 2015-2018 contracts, I know that’s no longer 2022 market conditions and have my own internal metrics of what is good or not good - as I’m sure you do too.
Last edited by ShyGuy; 09-23-2022 at 01:37 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
