Alaska or (fill in another airline name)
07-21-2019, 05:14 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 682
Aren’t all purchases out of some form of necessity? SW bought AT out of the necessity to grow and compete. Also the necessity to knock off competition. Same thing with all recent mergers. DAL/NW, UAL/CAL, USA/AA/AW.... Do you think these things happened just because there was some cash lying around and the board needed a project to keep them busy? It was necessary for each of these things to happen for the current surviving companies to thrive, stay competitive and exit bankruptcy. I’m sure the individual companies could have struggled through and last a little longer but the companies thought it necessary to combine in order to stay in the game. Same goes for AS. We were doing fine. Making money and holding our own prior to the purchase of VX. You all say the same of VX. Both companies could have stayed the course and muddled through but the buyer and the seller thought it necessary to combine for a better, more competitive future.
AS’ growth is inorganic....no airline in the last decade has grown organically. All the major players besides JB, NK and F9 have gone through mergers. The reason each is so massive is because of inorganic growth. It also took each of those airlines a number of years to fully recognize the benefits of the mergers. Each one experienced an uphill slog at first.
Every company “drums” up business. That’s what $49 fares are. That’s what fire sales and 2 for ones are. You think AS is the only one that “drums” up business? AS is gonna be fine.
AS’ growth is inorganic....no airline in the last decade has grown organically. All the major players besides JB, NK and F9 have gone through mergers. The reason each is so massive is because of inorganic growth. It also took each of those airlines a number of years to fully recognize the benefits of the mergers. Each one experienced an uphill slog at first.
Every company “drums” up business. That’s what $49 fares are. That’s what fire sales and 2 for ones are. You think AS is the only one that “drums” up business? AS is gonna be fine.
So like I had to do in a similar reply to you just a few posts up, I'm going to once again clarify and emphasize two of the points that you did this with in your latest reply and then I'm gonna give this one a rest.......
First, I didn't say AS bought VX out of necessity (to compete)... I said they were FORCED to buy VX (their very survival depended on it)...It's a suttle but very important difference in argument....
Finally, like I said..... ask a supervisory gate agent what AS has been trying within the last 2 weeks or so IN THE PEAK SUMMER TRAVEL SEASON in order to drum up support/enthusiasm for it's transcons...... and it's not promotional fares...
Last edited by All Bizniz; 07-21-2019 at 05:29 PM.
07-21-2019, 06:50 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 682
07-21-2019, 08:05 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 694
Ha! Really? THE WORST! Wow, that’s a lofty title. I know you kids like to throw “troll” around at anyone that says anything other than what you want to hear. It’s your, “get out of an actual discussion” shield. However, between the two of us, you’re the one that wants everyone to join you in your misery, sulking under your bridge. You’re constantly blaming your bad vibes on anyone senior to you. I’m sorry I don’t hate my life and can’t join you on your “feelz sad” tour 2019. I don’t say things just to get a rise so how am I a troll? I speak my perspective. You don’t agree with it...O.K., sun rises tomorrow all the same. I think many on here have valid points and I’ll fight for a better contract with any of you. However, I’m not gonna pi$$ n moan just to pi$$ n moan because others are pi$$ing n moaning. I really hope cheerier days are ahead for you.
07-21-2019, 08:49 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 694
I notice many times when you respond to people's points, you ever so slightly distort the context or meaning of what was said in order to then make your rebuttal. Very poor debating style my friend....
So like I had to do in a similar reply to you just a few posts up, I'm going to once again clarify and emphasize two of the points that you did this with in your latest reply and then I'm gonna give this one a rest.......
First, I didn't say AS bought VX out of necessity (to compete)... I said they were FORCED to buy VX (their very survival depended on it)...It's a suttle but very important difference in argument....
Finally, like I said..... ask a supervisory gate agent what AS has been trying within the last 2 weeks or so IN THE PEAK SUMMER TRAVEL SEASON in order to drum up support/enthusiasm for it's transcons...... and it's not promotional fares...
So like I had to do in a similar reply to you just a few posts up, I'm going to once again clarify and emphasize two of the points that you did this with in your latest reply and then I'm gonna give this one a rest.......
First, I didn't say AS bought VX out of necessity (to compete)... I said they were FORCED to buy VX (their very survival depended on it)...It's a suttle but very important difference in argument....
Finally, like I said..... ask a supervisory gate agent what AS has been trying within the last 2 weeks or so IN THE PEAK SUMMER TRAVEL SEASON in order to drum up support/enthusiasm for it's transcons...... and it's not promotional fares...
What I don’t understand from guys like you, who are no doubt well versed in the industry, is why you act like any trouble at all here at AS is either THE END, IS ONLY AN AS PROBLEM, or HAS NEVER BEEN EXPERIENCED BY ANY OTHER AIRLINE EVER.....THEREFORE WE ARE THE WORST?
When you say AS was forced to buy VX for their survival, I say every airline that exists today, save a few has gone through an acquisition or merger for their “very survival”. When you snark at the fact that AS’ growth in the last few years wasn’t “organic”. I say where the he|| have you been the last 10-15 years? Every major airline today is made up of multiple pilot groups. AA is like 4 different airlines for Christ’s sakes! Non of the big four grew “organically” so does that mean their growth doesn’t really count?
If you’re truly a “vet” of the industry, why do you act like you’ve never seen the industry. I can’t remember if you said you were a refugee from another airline pre VX but if so, this should be status quo for you. You’ve had a front row seat to the imperfections of this, at times, absurd rollercoaster. Why then, do you act like every bit of less than amazing news at AS is the beginning of the end? I mean three years on now and you guys are still on the corner exclaiming, “THE END IS NEAR!”
You say we’re having trouble filling seats on trans cons but we’re still very profitable because of our PNW traffic. I say that must be some pretty good $**t we got up here if it’s floating the company to the point we have to raise our projected Q2 results twice in the last 3 weeks. I thought we were losing our A$$ to Delta in SEA and SW in HI?
Look man, I think you know your stuff but we’re just gonna disagree on some things and that’s o.k. I’ll still be there along side you fighting the good fight for a contract I believe both of us have earned.
07-23-2019, 04:19 PM
#46
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Position: Thinks about leaving but doesn’t
Posts: 16
You guys keep talking about how poorly we’re performing but our upcoming Q2 projections have been increased twice. Everything I’m reading says we’re starting to outperform our expectations. I think we’re gonna be just fine.
You say “Historically” AS hasn’t spent the time to develop outside the PNW. After 9/11, AS was one of the ONLY airlines to develop their route structure and build their network. Expanding to the East Coast and eventually HI. From ‘13-‘18, AS has grown more than most other airlines in the country. Yes, there have been cut backs on unprofitable routes but there has also been added frequency to many East Coast routes and HI recently. To the chagrin of many who enjoyed 24 overnights in some of those places. (cue the boo hiss section regarding 24 hr overnights).
I don’t think AS inherited any traction on transcons, nor was that their intention. They bought gates. That’s about it. Was that a waste of resources? Yes in every sense. To you and I, it seems they could have done much more with the acquisition but we’re not in charge.
As far as those Koolaid sessions you speak of, I had to think for a minute about what you meant. I realize you’re referring to flight path. Those snake oil conventions are so unremarkable I forgot all about it. Most companies do them and most employees don’t give it a second thought.
Anyways, AS and JB are very similar companies.
You say “Historically” AS hasn’t spent the time to develop outside the PNW. After 9/11, AS was one of the ONLY airlines to develop their route structure and build their network. Expanding to the East Coast and eventually HI. From ‘13-‘18, AS has grown more than most other airlines in the country. Yes, there have been cut backs on unprofitable routes but there has also been added frequency to many East Coast routes and HI recently. To the chagrin of many who enjoyed 24 overnights in some of those places. (cue the boo hiss section regarding 24 hr overnights).
I don’t think AS inherited any traction on transcons, nor was that their intention. They bought gates. That’s about it. Was that a waste of resources? Yes in every sense. To you and I, it seems they could have done much more with the acquisition but we’re not in charge.
As far as those Koolaid sessions you speak of, I had to think for a minute about what you meant. I realize you’re referring to flight path. Those snake oil conventions are so unremarkable I forgot all about it. Most companies do them and most employees don’t give it a second thought.
Anyways, AS and JB are very similar companies.
07-23-2019, 06:11 PM
#48
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Concern will be when the MAX is unleashed and all that capacity is dumped into the domestic market over a few months and what that will do to all the yields. As the MAX grounding drags longer, obviously the reintroduction will also take longer, but even if spread over a 6month period, that will be a sizable chunk of capacity to dump into the domestic market.
07-24-2019, 11:04 AM
#49
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,205
Legacy means "did interstate flying before deregulation". AS is that too.
Just because they do a lot of flying in a certain region does not make them a "regional" airline per today's usage of the term.
What they are is a legacy major which resembles some of the other legacy majors... 30 years ago. What changed was most of the rest merged and expanded their area of emphasis to the entire world. AS didn't change that much. But safe money says they will need to merge eventually.
HA is a legacy too, they are more similar to AS than to the big three. They *might* be able to hang on standalone for the time being because of their unique geography and brand.
07-24-2019, 12:02 PM
#50
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Major (in industry usage) means sells their own tickets and flies at least narrowbodies. AS is obviously that.
Legacy means "did interstate flying before deregulation". AS is that too.
Just because they do a lot of flying in a certain region does not make them a "regional" airline per today's usage of the term.
What they are is a legacy major which resembles some of the other legacy majors... 30 years ago. What changed was most of the rest merged and expanded their area of emphasis to the entire world. AS didn't change that much. But safe money says they will need to merge eventually.
HA is a legacy too, they are more similar to AS than to the big three. They *might* be able to hang on standalone for the time being because of their unique geography and brand.
Legacy means "did interstate flying before deregulation". AS is that too.
Just because they do a lot of flying in a certain region does not make them a "regional" airline per today's usage of the term.
What they are is a legacy major which resembles some of the other legacy majors... 30 years ago. What changed was most of the rest merged and expanded their area of emphasis to the entire world. AS didn't change that much. But safe money says they will need to merge eventually.
HA is a legacy too, they are more similar to AS than to the big three. They *might* be able to hang on standalone for the time being because of their unique geography and brand.
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