ShyGuy

I never said it was easy. AS isn't even hiring right now. If one has applied to the big 3 and AS calls then they can come here and bide the time until one of the big 3 calls.

OTZeagle1

Yeah this place sucks! What a house of cards. This place is the worst “major” you could work for in the US. The only people that will stay are the losers that can’t get hired at the big 4!

OTZeagle1

That guy I am sure is an idiot. 🤨. I bet he is a 12 year old aviation geek that makes up stuff just to **** jive off. Actually he/she has been pretty quiet, hey Mea25000, what going on, we all want to know.

ShyGuy

No. Staying here is a function of age. Reality is given their age far too many pilots here have too much time vested here to start over again. If you’re still in your 20s or 30s here, you’d be silly not to have an app at the big 3.

And yes as of right now compared to the big 6, this is the “worse” place you could work at, compared to AA/DL/UA/SW/FDX/UPS. And soon to be jetBlue. All 7, their overall compensation and work rule package surpasses what AS has. But hey, you get your favorite zip code home base so there’s that. The AS contract reflects sell outs for PNW Home basing.

KnockKnock

And you did the same at VX to have the JFK base??? It’s funny that all this “AS is a terrible place and VX was so much better”, rhetoric, only comes from VX guys. However AS guys and every single OAL pilot I’ve EVER talked to, don’t see this acquisition the same way. Would I be correct in saying the VX “agreement” reflected your willingness to overlook the deficiencies in pay, retirement, vacation accrual, lack of CBA etc. so you could live in your favorite zip code? Where exactly would you have placed VX in that group of 7? You made more than Frontier so maybe you’d have come in at #9/10? Look at the bright side, you jumped 3 spots I wish you luck in you employment elsewhere.

ShyGuy

Yeah nice try, doesn’t work. When I was hired SFO was the only base. I commuted 6 months before moving to base. LAX became a base and then later New York at the end of 2013. I already moved twice for this job, once when hired into SFO and then once more when NY opened. I didn’t choose this place because I somehow magically guessed what bases would open after being hired. Very few people chose to come to VX because of its base offering. As opposed to AS which is notoriously known to “prefer” PNW zip code applicants.

As for VX, we voted in ALPA very quickly in 2015 considering the airline started flying in 2007. Our first contract would have come, just like JetBlue did with their first ALPA contract. Anyway that’s going off on acenarios that can’t play out. I know what AS pilots think of this acquisition. I like your assertion of OAL pilot opinions on this acquisition. What do you mean “don’t see this acquisition the same way.” Why beat around the bush, just say what you want. It’s not about how you see this acquisition. It’s about your (and now our) current contract being sub-par and surpassed by ALL 7 other legacy/mainline carriers.

Slim6890

I have been at Ak for less than a year and I am trying to make a jump. Management already told us we won't ever be the highest paid and I thank them for that. (At least they were honest) AK is not a bad place to be but it won't ever be the highest paid. All the other major airlines have slowed down their hiring for summer so I don't expect to be call till late fall.

KnockKnock

So if not base, then what brought you to VX? It wasn’t the pay, it wasn’t the retirement, it wasn’t the air tight scope, it wasn’t the CBA... There had to be some reason you willingly overlooked the things you are now so adamant about. Was it just the first place that called? Since when is living in base NOT a major factor in where someone goes for employment. Living in base IS a huge QOL determinant. You guys just like to use it now as a rally cry for your unhappiness. Look around, there is an industry wide slow down going. The 10 yr cycle has probably run it’s course and may start downward. AS is far from THE PREMIER AIRLINE buuuuuut so was VX. The fact you voted in ALPA means nothing. VX lagged far behind the industry for a decade and from the moment you interviewed there, you were apparently ok with that. However, you stand on a soap box and tell others they’re decisions, no matter how identical to yours, are wrong.

ShyGuy

When I was hired the legacies were not at that moment and some had pilots on furlough. The only ones hiring were VX, Spirit, and jetBlue. That was the environment then. You are correct about living in base as a huge QOL factor. But the difference is of all the airlines, AS in particular has always used that as a drawing factor to use PNW basing (a zero cost item) as a reason to keep offering substandard work rules.

It's not a soapbox. The difference is actually trying to do something about it as a pilot group. That's where you are wrong on your comment about voting in ALPA means nothing. "Lagged the industry for a decade" is not in context, VX had only been flying for 9 years when it was bought. The difference though is that pilots here had tried and fought to improve things and that culminated in getting ALPA on property in what was one of the fastest ALPA induction for a new startup in history. Yes VX pay and retirement was subpar, but there were many work rules that were actually quite good. Many of those rules are even better than the current AS contract today and the VX side will lose those starting October. You keep pointing the finger at VX, but the reality is in its short 9 year flying history the pilots took the right steps to move VX in a good direction in terms of pay, retirement, scheduling, and QOL. You start that by having one unified voice, and ALPA was it.

The difference is for you there is 85 years history and all you have to do is look back and see where you are today. AS is the ONLY legacy airline not to have scope. Why? It's quite simple. Because you (and your group) have never put a strong value and truly demanded scope. You settled for a few more dollars every single time. Contract 2013 was basically the "$200/hr contract." That was the starting hourly rate number for 2013 and increase forward. It was your goal and it was obtained at the expense of other things. It would seem the group only cared about hourly payrate. Your scope is non-existent and your work rules are absolutely terrible. You work more days on average than most other legacy airlines. But the message you've sent is that all of that is okay because you drive to work in the PNW and don't care about anything except the hourly payrate.

Instead, your message should be one of unifying and something along the lines of hang in there, lets fight together in 2020 for a new contract.

KnockKnock

Did you know that VX would be voting in ALPA in 2015, when you were hired? Of course not, no more than you knew what bases would open but you still found it an acceptable place to go regardless of, not having a CBA, not having scope, lower than average pay and lower than average retirement. So you apparently took a few concessions for the work rules yet you chastise those who, as you say, have taken concessions for the QOL of living in base. You can’t say that voting in ALPA means VX would have been better off. There’s no way of knowing how that would have turned out. It’s taken JB 3 years to negotiate their first contract. Frontier is still getting the sh!t kicked out of them and they too are ALPA. When I got hired, AS top pay was within $3 of DAL top 737 pay at the life of the contract. 401K was within 2.5% of DAL. I did know that scope was extremely limited but I also knew the contract was amenable in April 2018. Having spoken to many AS pilots at the time, I thought scope was something we would absolutely be fighting for and was one of the first things many of us in new hire talked about improving. So yeah, I found it acceptable to come to AS so I could drive to work and improve my QOL. So in order to validate any of your soap box rhetoric, please write me a list of ways VX raised the bar for the industry. That list is gonna be shorter then your Uniform ties. Believe me Shy, my message IS to hang there and fight together for a better contract. I just find it absurd that pilots coming form anytime less than THE #1 position in the Industry, should refer to others as sell outs. Especially when they themselves could be perceived as having “sold out”.