Yikes...
03-16-2018, 12:44 AM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Some of the responses I'm reading in this thread are beyond reprehensible....and frankly, they speak more to the lack of morals and character of the authors than anything else.
This is a woman who, excluding a quick stop at Horizon, went straight from the military to Alaska Airlines where she was a NEW HIRE. All of her training would have led her to speak of the incident to her supervisors within the airline. Frankly, I'm amazed she spoke to ALPA at all and am wondering what was done from their end, if anything at all. She was clearly loathe to subject her employer to the horrendous publicity this would generate. And there is not a woman alive who doesn't understand the victim-shaming that automatically accompanies a rape charge, whether the perpetrator ends up in prison or not. She knew darned good and well what would happen to her career: men she worked with every day would now be calling her a ***** who must try to sleep with every captain she flies with (so don't talk to her! call in sick, don't fly with her!); she must have worn suggestive clothing to lure him into bed (because what woman wouldn't be dying to get into this guy's pants?); she was looking for a payout (instead of wanting to continue a very distinguished career); she was capitalizing on the MeToo movement.....yes, she knew every disgusting statement that would follow her for the rest of her career, even if she went to another carrier. Everyone is getting a good preview of the smear campaign against her. All women know how these things go down. I'm quite certain that the only reason a lawsuit was filed the other day was because she finally realized how naive she had been to believe the company was going to take care of the problem.
While I agree with those who have mentioned that, statistically speaking, this wasn't the first time this guy had pulled similar stunts (I have a family member who has flown with this captain in years past and says he is "not surprised at all" with the current accusations), I am confident that part of his employee file was shredded within an hour of the lawsuit being filed.
Despite the uphill battle she is facing, the good news is that the good ol' boys club that at one time would have rallied to protect this guy at all costs is a thing of the past as the dinosaurs retire/die off, leaving behind only a handful of self-righteous, angry cowards who are only brave enough to spew their hateful missives in anonymous internet forums. The new generation of pilots replacing them has little patience for those who lack a moral compass and they are not okay with silence, preferring instead to call out reprehensible behaviors. Times are changing.
ETA: I've been checking in/reading the forums here for a good many years and this is the first time I've ever been disgusted enough to actually write a response. Because enough is enough.
This is a woman who, excluding a quick stop at Horizon, went straight from the military to Alaska Airlines where she was a NEW HIRE. All of her training would have led her to speak of the incident to her supervisors within the airline. Frankly, I'm amazed she spoke to ALPA at all and am wondering what was done from their end, if anything at all. She was clearly loathe to subject her employer to the horrendous publicity this would generate. And there is not a woman alive who doesn't understand the victim-shaming that automatically accompanies a rape charge, whether the perpetrator ends up in prison or not. She knew darned good and well what would happen to her career: men she worked with every day would now be calling her a ***** who must try to sleep with every captain she flies with (so don't talk to her! call in sick, don't fly with her!); she must have worn suggestive clothing to lure him into bed (because what woman wouldn't be dying to get into this guy's pants?); she was looking for a payout (instead of wanting to continue a very distinguished career); she was capitalizing on the MeToo movement.....yes, she knew every disgusting statement that would follow her for the rest of her career, even if she went to another carrier. Everyone is getting a good preview of the smear campaign against her. All women know how these things go down. I'm quite certain that the only reason a lawsuit was filed the other day was because she finally realized how naive she had been to believe the company was going to take care of the problem.
While I agree with those who have mentioned that, statistically speaking, this wasn't the first time this guy had pulled similar stunts (I have a family member who has flown with this captain in years past and says he is "not surprised at all" with the current accusations), I am confident that part of his employee file was shredded within an hour of the lawsuit being filed.
Despite the uphill battle she is facing, the good news is that the good ol' boys club that at one time would have rallied to protect this guy at all costs is a thing of the past as the dinosaurs retire/die off, leaving behind only a handful of self-righteous, angry cowards who are only brave enough to spew their hateful missives in anonymous internet forums. The new generation of pilots replacing them has little patience for those who lack a moral compass and they are not okay with silence, preferring instead to call out reprehensible behaviors. Times are changing.
ETA: I've been checking in/reading the forums here for a good many years and this is the first time I've ever been disgusted enough to actually write a response. Because enough is enough.
VERY well said - Excellent post!
Thank You,
SP
03-16-2018, 01:13 AM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,339
While I personally think it is incredibly stupid to talk about this case since no one really knows what happened and the fact that this thread will have zero impact on the outcome, apparently, lots of people here are incapable of viewing events from someone else’s point of view don’t understand what life is like for a woman in a male-dominated industry.
To those that wonder why she didn’t report it right away: She was drugged. Besides dealing with the side effects of the drug, she actually didn’t know what happened. She was also probably worried about her job. Haven’t you ever slept through an alarm and woken up in a panic? You can’t think straight and the only thing running through your head is, “I got to get downstairs and minimize the delay.” It would also be very disorienting not recognizing the room you were in. At this point, she is probably blaming herself thinking she drank too much and has ruined her career. The captain was also probably panicking making it even harder for her to think clearly. She probably never had time to think about it until well after she got home and started putting the pieces together.
To those that wonder why she didn’t file a police report: Most women have trouble with this step because our society instantly shames them (just read the first few comments). And those that don’t shame her feel pity. Most pilots are Type A personalities and don’t want to be shamed or pitied. She also probably felt guilt knowing that besides ruining his career, he could end up in jail. If they went out drinking, she probably liked the guy and heard about his family. It can be hard to ruin a person’s life especially if you don’t have any actual memories of what they did to you.
The way we are coached to answer the “What do you do if the captain you are flying with appears drunk?” probably didn’t help her either. We are told to bend over backwards to get that captain to realize the mistake before we call anyone. And then even when we do, we say, “The captain does not appear fit to fly” or we threaten to call out sick ourselves. In a similar way, she probably just wanted to handle incrementally and see how the company would handle it before she got the law involved. Maybe she thought his family would already suffer a lot if he lost his job and didn’t want them to their father/husband in jail too.
During the investigation by the company, she learned more details including like seeing the video of herself, and that is probably when she went from feeling ashamed to angry. When she realized that because she didn’t play hardball and get the cops involved right away, the company was just going to file it under, “she said, he said” and she knew that it would be her reputation that would be ruined, she filed the case because at least it would clear her name and bring justice.
To those that wonder why she didn’t report it right away: She was drugged. Besides dealing with the side effects of the drug, she actually didn’t know what happened. She was also probably worried about her job. Haven’t you ever slept through an alarm and woken up in a panic? You can’t think straight and the only thing running through your head is, “I got to get downstairs and minimize the delay.” It would also be very disorienting not recognizing the room you were in. At this point, she is probably blaming herself thinking she drank too much and has ruined her career. The captain was also probably panicking making it even harder for her to think clearly. She probably never had time to think about it until well after she got home and started putting the pieces together.
To those that wonder why she didn’t file a police report: Most women have trouble with this step because our society instantly shames them (just read the first few comments). And those that don’t shame her feel pity. Most pilots are Type A personalities and don’t want to be shamed or pitied. She also probably felt guilt knowing that besides ruining his career, he could end up in jail. If they went out drinking, she probably liked the guy and heard about his family. It can be hard to ruin a person’s life especially if you don’t have any actual memories of what they did to you.
The way we are coached to answer the “What do you do if the captain you are flying with appears drunk?” probably didn’t help her either. We are told to bend over backwards to get that captain to realize the mistake before we call anyone. And then even when we do, we say, “The captain does not appear fit to fly” or we threaten to call out sick ourselves. In a similar way, she probably just wanted to handle incrementally and see how the company would handle it before she got the law involved. Maybe she thought his family would already suffer a lot if he lost his job and didn’t want them to their father/husband in jail too.
During the investigation by the company, she learned more details including like seeing the video of herself, and that is probably when she went from feeling ashamed to angry. When she realized that because she didn’t play hardball and get the cops involved right away, the company was just going to file it under, “she said, he said” and she knew that it would be her reputation that would be ruined, she filed the case because at least it would clear her name and bring justice.
03-16-2018, 03:20 AM
#93
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,215
I’m a Captain at Alaska and Paul is a friend of mine. I find all of this very hard to believe. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but I am saying that this is an extraordinary claim and there better be proof. Paul has adopted children out of very hard circumstances and from my direct experience with him, this kind of behavior is utterly unimaginable. I’m awaiting the results of a fair and comprehensive investigation before I decide what to believe. If he did it, he should be in prison. If she’s lying to protect her career, she’s the one who belongs in prison. We’ll see. What a fk’ed up situation.
Extreme example but Bill Cosby was a role model also and revered for all his good deeds and moral character.
03-16-2018, 03:22 AM
#94
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,215
Some of the responses I'm reading in this thread are beyond reprehensible....and frankly, they speak more to the lack of morals and character of the authors than anything else.
This is a woman who, excluding a quick stop at Horizon, went straight from the military to Alaska Airlines where she was a NEW HIRE. All of her training would have led her to speak of the incident to her supervisors within the airline. Frankly, I'm amazed she spoke to ALPA at all and am wondering what was done from their end, if anything at all. She was clearly loathe to subject her employer to the horrendous publicity this would generate. And there is not a woman alive who doesn't understand the victim-shaming that automatically accompanies a rape charge, whether the perpetrator ends up in prison or not. She knew darned good and well what would happen to her career: men she worked with every day would now be calling her a ***** who must try to sleep with every captain she flies with (so don't talk to her! call in sick, don't fly with her!); she must have worn suggestive clothing to lure him into bed (because what woman wouldn't be dying to get into this guy's pants?); she was looking for a payout (instead of wanting to continue a very distinguished career); she was capitalizing on the MeToo movement.....yes, she knew every disgusting statement that would follow her for the rest of her career, even if she went to another carrier. Everyone is getting a good preview of the smear campaign against her. All women know how these things go down. I'm quite certain that the only reason a lawsuit was filed the other day was because she finally realized how naive she had been to believe the company was going to take care of the problem.
While I agree with those who have mentioned that, statistically speaking, this wasn't the first time this guy had pulled similar stunts (I have a family member who has flown with this captain in years past and says he is "not surprised at all" with the current accusations), I am confident that part of his employee file was shredded within an hour of the lawsuit being filed.
Despite the uphill battle she is facing, the good news is that the good ol' boys club that at one time would have rallied to protect this guy at all costs is a thing of the past as the dinosaurs retire/die off, leaving behind only a handful of self-righteous, angry cowards who are only brave enough to spew their hateful missives in anonymous internet forums. The new generation of pilots replacing them has little patience for those who lack a moral compass and they are not okay with silence, preferring instead to call out reprehensible behaviors. Times are changing.
ETA: I've been checking in/reading the forums here for a good many years and this is the first time I've ever been disgusted enough to actually write a response. Because enough is enough.
This is a woman who, excluding a quick stop at Horizon, went straight from the military to Alaska Airlines where she was a NEW HIRE. All of her training would have led her to speak of the incident to her supervisors within the airline. Frankly, I'm amazed she spoke to ALPA at all and am wondering what was done from their end, if anything at all. She was clearly loathe to subject her employer to the horrendous publicity this would generate. And there is not a woman alive who doesn't understand the victim-shaming that automatically accompanies a rape charge, whether the perpetrator ends up in prison or not. She knew darned good and well what would happen to her career: men she worked with every day would now be calling her a ***** who must try to sleep with every captain she flies with (so don't talk to her! call in sick, don't fly with her!); she must have worn suggestive clothing to lure him into bed (because what woman wouldn't be dying to get into this guy's pants?); she was looking for a payout (instead of wanting to continue a very distinguished career); she was capitalizing on the MeToo movement.....yes, she knew every disgusting statement that would follow her for the rest of her career, even if she went to another carrier. Everyone is getting a good preview of the smear campaign against her. All women know how these things go down. I'm quite certain that the only reason a lawsuit was filed the other day was because she finally realized how naive she had been to believe the company was going to take care of the problem.
While I agree with those who have mentioned that, statistically speaking, this wasn't the first time this guy had pulled similar stunts (I have a family member who has flown with this captain in years past and says he is "not surprised at all" with the current accusations), I am confident that part of his employee file was shredded within an hour of the lawsuit being filed.
Despite the uphill battle she is facing, the good news is that the good ol' boys club that at one time would have rallied to protect this guy at all costs is a thing of the past as the dinosaurs retire/die off, leaving behind only a handful of self-righteous, angry cowards who are only brave enough to spew their hateful missives in anonymous internet forums. The new generation of pilots replacing them has little patience for those who lack a moral compass and they are not okay with silence, preferring instead to call out reprehensible behaviors. Times are changing.
ETA: I've been checking in/reading the forums here for a good many years and this is the first time I've ever been disgusted enough to actually write a response. Because enough is enough.
All of it well said.
03-16-2018, 04:38 AM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Position: Wichita
Posts: 736
She’s doing interviews now. Calls sexual assault “a pervasive problem in the airline industry”... Does anyone else really agree that it’s a pervasive problem?
https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.g...%3fid=53785721
https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.g...%3fid=53785721
03-16-2018, 05:03 AM
#96
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,215
She’s doing interviews now. Calls sexual assault “a pervasive problem in the airline industry”... Does anyone else really agree that it’s a pervasive problem?
https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.g...%3fid=53785721
https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.g...%3fid=53785721
Apparently not enough reason to not get hired again. He was on the no-upgrade list otherwise he’d been a captain.
Scumbag operator but still....121
And everybody in this industry has at some point flown with Captain A-hole and his never ending rant about ‘wimmen’.
So yeah..why am I surprised again?
03-16-2018, 05:35 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,783
She’s doing interviews now. Calls sexual assault “a pervasive problem in the airline industry”... Does anyone else really agree that it’s a pervasive problem?
https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.g...%3fid=53785721
https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.g...%3fid=53785721
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