PBS at Alaska?
02-21-2018, 05:59 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 240
Wut,
Have to agree with the AS guys here. Unless the Union Scheduling Committee has an input and/or control of the PBS program the result is going to be worse than line bidding.
As a Scheduling Committee veteran I can assure you AS managers will never, repeat NEVER allow the Union Scheduling Committee input into the PBS solution. They'll always find an excuse for crappy pairings and as a result, crappy lines.
Your experience with PBS at VX can't be extrapolated to AS.
Have to agree with the AS guys here. Unless the Union Scheduling Committee has an input and/or control of the PBS program the result is going to be worse than line bidding.
As a Scheduling Committee veteran I can assure you AS managers will never, repeat NEVER allow the Union Scheduling Committee input into the PBS solution. They'll always find an excuse for crappy pairings and as a result, crappy lines.
Your experience with PBS at VX can't be extrapolated to AS.
Have you seen the s..t you call lines?
Clueless, oh well...🤣
02-21-2018, 08:06 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 784
Easy now, don’t be putting all of VX in the same boat. I’ve suffered PBS in my own flesh, and so have many others around here. I don’t wanna see that crap anytime soon around here, especially with yall’s management types.
You’d be surprised how many of VX pilots on the line hate it. As much as Alaska may need a more modern way of bidding for schedules, PBS ain’t it, not now at least.
You’d be surprised how many of VX pilots on the line hate it. As much as Alaska may need a more modern way of bidding for schedules, PBS ain’t it, not now at least.
If you hate VX pbs you just don’t understand it.
02-21-2018, 08:26 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 694
Maybe this has been discussed before but I gotta ask, why is anyone openly advocating for something we hope to make management negotiate with us over? It seems counter productive to show our cards two years out. If you have 700 VX pilots already saying “yes” to PBS, management has to offer up a fraction of what they would if we all said “pound sand”. Love it, hate it or indifferent to it, we should all stop talking about it. With all this drum beating about sticking it to the man in 2020, I’m shocked how many pilots are already giving up big ticket items.
02-21-2018, 10:19 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 694
I can’t speak for the guys that’ve been here longer than contract 2013 and their motives behind how they voted. Every airline has it’s yesmen. I can say that we’ve hired almost a quarter of the list in the last 4 years and pumped in a lot of new blood. Pilots like myself that are not content to just accept less. I’m of the mindset that we don’t give them an inch unless we get a foot in return. So with this in mind, even if you want PBS and it’s perceived benifit, we don’t let management know what we’re thinking and make them negotiate for it. Saying yes to PBS now is no different than saying, today, what pay rate you’ll accept two years from now. We gotta freeze this management out NOW.
02-21-2018, 12:47 PM
#86
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
02-21-2018, 12:50 PM
#87
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,210
There's an easy solution to that.
"Oh, we don't get any input into PBS? Alright, then you don't get PBS. And we're not signing off on your new uniforms either."
AS managers won't "allow" anything until we stop allowing them things either.
02-21-2018, 01:35 PM
#88
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 83
This is the defeatist attitude that put Alaska pilots in this pathetic position in the first place. You seem to forgot that you guys/gals are the spearhead of the operation. You people desperately need a wake up call. Hopefully the VX guys will give you just that. My God, reading what you Alaska guys put on here is embarrassing for the industry as a whole...
02-21-2018, 01:57 PM
#89
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 95
VX PBS cheerleading team
I’m a VXer and have spent many months with 18+ days off. However this has nothing to do with PBS!!
Only has to do with a low credit threshold of 70hrs/high credit Trip. Our Flica PBS is a basic non-optimizing system that is operated in GOOD faith.
The previous pbs system I had was operated in a manner which allowed the company to unstack every day of the year. And the bottom 15% were Unstacked on every week. They used u stacking as a staffing tool. The pbs system optimized, which for those unfamiliar meant it awarded trips out of seniority order in order to make the pairings fit better. Every vendor optimizes differently but for example if a Jr pilot had Trip in their 1st preference they would get it over you who had it in their 10th. Flica doesn’t do this it goes line for line through a pilots preference before it moves to the next pilot.
In order for me to even consider pbs I would at a minimum need rules on the following. I suggest all unfamiliar AS and Uniformed VX pilots get familiar with these terms as this will be our lives for a long time if we vote in a bad system.
Here what we should be asking for at a minimum
-Pilot built pairings
-Higher Trip rigs and min daily credit not averaged
-minimum reserve coverage
-a transparent Trip trading system that works
-a defined minimum credit threshold. Ex..They can’t be allowed to raise it to 85+ every month because staffing dictates. (They don’t take advantage of this that much at VX but previous company did)
-limits on unstacking
-non optimizing
-defined defaults. Ie. max work blocks, min days of between blocks, credit buffers between 117 regs, etc... And the ability to waive these default if wanted.
There are many more I’m missing but as I’m almost certain we will be voting on this in the next 5 years we all need to become much more educated on what else is out there and how bad pbs can be without he right rules in place.
Only has to do with a low credit threshold of 70hrs/high credit Trip. Our Flica PBS is a basic non-optimizing system that is operated in GOOD faith.
The previous pbs system I had was operated in a manner which allowed the company to unstack every day of the year. And the bottom 15% were Unstacked on every week. They used u stacking as a staffing tool. The pbs system optimized, which for those unfamiliar meant it awarded trips out of seniority order in order to make the pairings fit better. Every vendor optimizes differently but for example if a Jr pilot had Trip in their 1st preference they would get it over you who had it in their 10th. Flica doesn’t do this it goes line for line through a pilots preference before it moves to the next pilot.
In order for me to even consider pbs I would at a minimum need rules on the following. I suggest all unfamiliar AS and Uniformed VX pilots get familiar with these terms as this will be our lives for a long time if we vote in a bad system.
Here what we should be asking for at a minimum
-Pilot built pairings
-Higher Trip rigs and min daily credit not averaged
-minimum reserve coverage
-a transparent Trip trading system that works
-a defined minimum credit threshold. Ex..They can’t be allowed to raise it to 85+ every month because staffing dictates. (They don’t take advantage of this that much at VX but previous company did)
-limits on unstacking
-non optimizing
-defined defaults. Ie. max work blocks, min days of between blocks, credit buffers between 117 regs, etc... And the ability to waive these default if wanted.
There are many more I’m missing but as I’m almost certain we will be voting on this in the next 5 years we all need to become much more educated on what else is out there and how bad pbs can be without he right rules in place.
02-21-2018, 02:20 PM
#90
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,210
I’m a VXer and have spent many months with 18+ days off. However this has nothing to do with PBS!!
Only has to do with a low credit threshold of 70hrs/high credit Trip. Our Flica PBS is a basic non-optimizing system that is operated in GOOD faith.
The previous pbs system I had was operated in a manner which allowed the company to unstack every day of the year. And the bottom 15% were Unstacked on every week. They used u stacking as a staffing tool. The pbs system optimized, which for those unfamiliar meant it awarded trips out of seniority order in order to make the pairings fit better. Every vendor optimizes differently but for example if a Jr pilot had Trip in their 1st preference they would get it over you who had it in their 10th. Flica doesn’t do this it goes line for line through a pilots preference before it moves to the next pilot.
In order for me to even consider pbs I would at a minimum need rules on the following. I suggest all unfamiliar AS and Uniformed VX pilots get familiar with these terms as this will be our lives for a long time if we vote in a bad system.
Here what we should be asking for at a minimum
-Pilot built pairings
-Higher Trip rigs and min daily credit not averaged
-minimum reserve coverage
-a transparent Trip trading system that works
-a defined minimum credit threshold. Ex..They can’t be allowed to raise it to 85+ every month because staffing dictates. (They don’t take advantage of this that much at VX but previous company did)
-limits on unstacking
-non optimizing
-defined defaults. Ie. max work blocks, min days of between blocks, credit buffers between 117 regs, etc... And the ability to waive these default if wanted.
There are many more I’m missing but as I’m almost certain we will be voting on this in the next 5 years we all need to become much more educated on what else is out there and how bad pbs can be without he right rules in place.
Only has to do with a low credit threshold of 70hrs/high credit Trip. Our Flica PBS is a basic non-optimizing system that is operated in GOOD faith.
The previous pbs system I had was operated in a manner which allowed the company to unstack every day of the year. And the bottom 15% were Unstacked on every week. They used u stacking as a staffing tool. The pbs system optimized, which for those unfamiliar meant it awarded trips out of seniority order in order to make the pairings fit better. Every vendor optimizes differently but for example if a Jr pilot had Trip in their 1st preference they would get it over you who had it in their 10th. Flica doesn’t do this it goes line for line through a pilots preference before it moves to the next pilot.
In order for me to even consider pbs I would at a minimum need rules on the following. I suggest all unfamiliar AS and Uniformed VX pilots get familiar with these terms as this will be our lives for a long time if we vote in a bad system.
Here what we should be asking for at a minimum
-Pilot built pairings
-Higher Trip rigs and min daily credit not averaged
-minimum reserve coverage
-a transparent Trip trading system that works
-a defined minimum credit threshold. Ex..They can’t be allowed to raise it to 85+ every month because staffing dictates. (They don’t take advantage of this that much at VX but previous company did)
-limits on unstacking
-non optimizing
-defined defaults. Ie. max work blocks, min days of between blocks, credit buffers between 117 regs, etc... And the ability to waive these default if wanted.
There are many more I’m missing but as I’m almost certain we will be voting on this in the next 5 years we all need to become much more educated on what else is out there and how bad pbs can be without he right rules in place.
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