PBS at Alaska?
02-17-2018, 08:02 PM
#51
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 32
Or how about a provision in our contract that if you serve in the union in ANY capacity, there I should be a 15 year gap between your union term and any “Alaska Management” position thereafter, any acceptance of a management job (for example......ummmm....say....Chief Pilot of Flt Ops right after your MEC Term where you were instrumental in getting the contract ratified after the Kasher arbitration).......then you resign your seniority number! (Just as an example of course.....wink wink)
02-18-2018, 06:24 PM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Bottom line with PBS. Alaska Airlines Leadership is not comfortable with more than the top 10% in both seats having more than 16 days off in a bid period. The stated goal is 14 day off average. When we get PBS(and we will) they will maintain this average. So for the proponents of PBS, when you succeed( and you will), we will average 14 days off, we will have handed back ptp vacation trading, we will not get premium pay for holidays and our line avg value will be 82hrs.
At least we will not have to line bid anymore.
It is not about what we can negotiate. It is about Alaska corporate core philosophy. You can not negotiate a change to that. You have to understand that 85% of the Alaska Pilots are satisfied with our current contract. Satisfied that we dont gave scope, dont have productive work rules, dont have good reserve rules etc.....because they feel they have enough....You cant negotiate that either...
At least we will not have to line bid anymore.
It is not about what we can negotiate. It is about Alaska corporate core philosophy. You can not negotiate a change to that. You have to understand that 85% of the Alaska Pilots are satisfied with our current contract. Satisfied that we dont gave scope, dont have productive work rules, dont have good reserve rules etc.....because they feel they have enough....You cant negotiate that either...
02-20-2018, 07:31 AM
#53
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 627
Bottom line with PBS. Alaska Airlines Leadership is not comfortable with more than the top 10% in both seats having more than 16 days off in a bid period. The stated goal is 14 day off average. When we get PBS(and we will) they will maintain this average. So for the proponents of PBS, when you succeed( and you will), we will average 14 days off, we will have handed back ptp vacation trading, we will not get premium pay for holidays and our line avg value will be 82hrs.
At least we will not have to line bid anymore.
It is not about what we can negotiate. It is about Alaska corporate core philosophy. You can not negotiate a change to that. You have to understand that 85% of the Alaska Pilots are satisfied with our current contract. Satisfied that we dont gave scope, dont have productive work rules, dont have good reserve rules etc.....because they feel they have enough....You cant negotiate that either...
At least we will not have to line bid anymore.
It is not about what we can negotiate. It is about Alaska corporate core philosophy. You can not negotiate a change to that. You have to understand that 85% of the Alaska Pilots are satisfied with our current contract. Satisfied that we dont gave scope, dont have productive work rules, dont have good reserve rules etc.....because they feel they have enough....You cant negotiate that either...
It's remarkable how many Alaska pilots don't understand how PBS works. Days off is a product of pairing efficiency. PBS only allows you to customize what days you want your pairings assigned. That's it.
All this crap about losing days off is nonsense.
02-20-2018, 07:35 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,934
This is 100% speculation. You can't make the changes you're talking about to productivity by PBS alone. You'd have to make radical changes to your already abysmal pairings.
It's remarkable how many Alaska pilots don't understand how PBS works. Days off is a product of pairing efficiency. PBS only allows you to customize what days you want your pairings assigned. That's it.
All this crap about losing days off is nonsense.
It's remarkable how many Alaska pilots don't understand how PBS works. Days off is a product of pairing efficiency. PBS only allows you to customize what days you want your pairings assigned. That's it.
All this crap about losing days off is nonsense.
02-20-2018, 09:55 AM
#55
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 32
This is 100% speculation. You can't make the changes you're talking about to productivity by PBS alone. You'd have to make radical changes to your already abysmal pairings.
It's remarkable how many Alaska pilots don't understand how PBS works. Days off is a product of pairing efficiency. PBS only allows you to customize what days you want your pairings assigned. That's it.
All this crap about losing days off is nonsense.
It's remarkable how many Alaska pilots don't understand how PBS works. Days off is a product of pairing efficiency. PBS only allows you to customize what days you want your pairings assigned. That's it.
All this crap about losing days off is nonsense.
Alaska Management is NOT entirely interested in pairing efficiency as much as they claim, it is more about protecting the home front pilots of the Seattle base. Everything revolves around their pairings. I have flown with scheduling committee Capts, they all say the same thing, “it would cost the company money.....to much money to revamp the current system (The Optimizer) to make more efficient pairings that would benefit the other bases.”
If mgmt was interested in greater efficiency, they would fix our scheduling rules and reveal the algorithm(s) that go into the optimizer to produce the current pairings we all receive month in and month out.
Because this is the reality, we Alaska pilots are not interested in giving AK Management ANYTHING more. Trip touching (paid trips that touch vacation days or training) is a work rule that was STOLEN by the Kasher award (among others). Our union has not & will not stand up and fight to get back what was stolen from this great group of pilots! Therefore, I think this is why you see such a hard stance against PBS here at the Eskimo.
02-20-2018, 10:41 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 343
Your right, we Alaska pilots don’t understand PBS and how it works. And quite frankly, at this juncture in our career at this airline, we don’t really care about knowing what PBS can do for us. This is only because this airline’s management has a long history of stripping away the work rules and benefits of this pilot group. Since AK Mgmt is interested in PBS, based on historical evidence......it cannot be a positive thing for this pilot group moving forward. But I will say this to your point about days off being a matter of pairing efficiency:
Alaska Management is NOT entirely interested in pairing efficiency as much as they claim, it is more about protecting the home front pilots of the Seattle base. Everything revolves around their pairings. I have flown with scheduling committee Capts, they all say the same thing, “it would cost the company money.....to much money to revamp the current system (The Optimizer) to make more efficient pairings that would benefit the other bases.”
If mgmt was interested in greater efficiency, they would fix our scheduling rules and reveal the algorithm(s) that go into the optimizer to produce the current pairings we all receive month in and month out.
Because this is the reality, we Alaska pilots are not interested in giving AK Management ANYTHING more. Trip touching (paid trips that touch vacation days or training) is a work rule that was STOLEN by the Kasher award (among others). Our union has not & will not stand up and fight to get back what was stolen from this great group of pilots! Therefore, I think this is why you see such a hard stance against PBS here at the Eskimo.
Alaska Management is NOT entirely interested in pairing efficiency as much as they claim, it is more about protecting the home front pilots of the Seattle base. Everything revolves around their pairings. I have flown with scheduling committee Capts, they all say the same thing, “it would cost the company money.....to much money to revamp the current system (The Optimizer) to make more efficient pairings that would benefit the other bases.”
If mgmt was interested in greater efficiency, they would fix our scheduling rules and reveal the algorithm(s) that go into the optimizer to produce the current pairings we all receive month in and month out.
Because this is the reality, we Alaska pilots are not interested in giving AK Management ANYTHING more. Trip touching (paid trips that touch vacation days or training) is a work rule that was STOLEN by the Kasher award (among others). Our union has not & will not stand up and fight to get back what was stolen from this great group of pilots! Therefore, I think this is why you see such a hard stance against PBS here at the Eskimo.
02-20-2018, 02:43 PM
#57
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 627
Your right, we Alaska pilots don’t understand PBS and how it works. And quite frankly, at this juncture in our career at this airline, we don’t really care about knowing what PBS can do for us. This is only because this airline’s management has a long history of stripping away the work rules and benefits of this pilot group. Since AK Mgmt is interested in PBS, based on historical evidence......it cannot be a positive thing for this pilot group moving forward. But I will say this to your point about days off being a matter of pairing efficiency:
Alaska Management is NOT entirely interested in pairing efficiency as much as they claim, it is more about protecting the home front pilots of the Seattle base. Everything revolves around their pairings. I have flown with scheduling committee Capts, they all say the same thing, “it would cost the company money.....to much money to revamp the current system (The Optimizer) to make more efficient pairings that would benefit the other bases.”
If mgmt was interested in greater efficiency, they would fix our scheduling rules and reveal the algorithm(s) that go into the optimizer to produce the current pairings we all receive month in and month out.
Because this is the reality, we Alaska pilots are not interested in giving AK Management ANYTHING more. Trip touching (paid trips that touch vacation days or training) is a work rule that was STOLEN by the Kasher award (among others). Our union has not & will not stand up and fight to get back what was stolen from this great group of pilots! Therefore, I think this is why you see such a hard stance against PBS here at the Eskimo.
Alaska Management is NOT entirely interested in pairing efficiency as much as they claim, it is more about protecting the home front pilots of the Seattle base. Everything revolves around their pairings. I have flown with scheduling committee Capts, they all say the same thing, “it would cost the company money.....to much money to revamp the current system (The Optimizer) to make more efficient pairings that would benefit the other bases.”
If mgmt was interested in greater efficiency, they would fix our scheduling rules and reveal the algorithm(s) that go into the optimizer to produce the current pairings we all receive month in and month out.
Because this is the reality, we Alaska pilots are not interested in giving AK Management ANYTHING more. Trip touching (paid trips that touch vacation days or training) is a work rule that was STOLEN by the Kasher award (among others). Our union has not & will not stand up and fight to get back what was stolen from this great group of pilots! Therefore, I think this is why you see such a hard stance against PBS here at the Eskimo.
Let's back up and see what you're defending. Alaska pilots spend more time than any other airline on bidding. You guys have more phases to your bid than Hobbits have mealtimes. 3 weeks devoted to your archaic paper methods. And no one gets what they want. You've got to spend time cold calling your fellow pilots trying to grease the days off you need. Why? You're shooting yourselves in the feet at this point.
You know how long VX spends on their bids? 3 days. An hour to put together your dates and preferences. Boom done. 3 days to wait until awards are published.
The fact that you're not devoting 3 weeks of your month to the dance you call "Line Bidding" is reason enough for everyone, including management, to be onboard.
Open your eyes. Your system sucks. And all because management wants it doesn't mean it's an automatic no.
02-20-2018, 03:24 PM
#58
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 57
This is so remarkably shortsighted, I'm actually stunned. The reason you're not onboard with PBS is "Management wants it... must be bad." Amazing.
Let's back up and see what you're defending. Alaska pilots spend more time than any other airline on bidding. You guys have more phases to your bid than Hobbits have mealtimes. 3 weeks devoted to your archaic paper methods. And no one gets what they want. You've got to spend time cold calling your fellow pilots trying to grease the days off you need. Why? You're shooting yourselves in the feet at this point.
You know how long VX spends on their bids? 3 days. An hour to put together your dates and preferences. Boom done. 3 days to wait until awards are published.
The fact that you're not devoting 3 weeks of your month to the dance you call "Line Bidding" is reason enough for everyone, including management, to be onboard.
Open your eyes. Your system sucks. And all because management wants it doesn't mean it's an automatic no.
Let's back up and see what you're defending. Alaska pilots spend more time than any other airline on bidding. You guys have more phases to your bid than Hobbits have mealtimes. 3 weeks devoted to your archaic paper methods. And no one gets what they want. You've got to spend time cold calling your fellow pilots trying to grease the days off you need. Why? You're shooting yourselves in the feet at this point.
You know how long VX spends on their bids? 3 days. An hour to put together your dates and preferences. Boom done. 3 days to wait until awards are published.
The fact that you're not devoting 3 weeks of your month to the dance you call "Line Bidding" is reason enough for everyone, including management, to be onboard.
Open your eyes. Your system sucks. And all because management wants it doesn't mean it's an automatic no.
02-20-2018, 03:30 PM
#59
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 81
You are everything that is wrong with Alaska airlines. It isn't entirely B and B that bend us over...it is people like you that see them walking around and just grab the lube. Stop being such a coward and stand up for yourself..and that goes for everyone of your comrades who "embrace the suck" without doing anything about it.
Our "windfall" isn't the lottery winning that most of you think we got, a microscopic percentage of VX guys are happy to be Alaskan Airways pilots now. It is very much like getting too drunk at the bar and taking home the 230 girl who you thought was super hot and waking up to her mustache prickling your neck the next morning.
Our "windfall" isn't the lottery winning that most of you think we got, a microscopic percentage of VX guys are happy to be Alaskan Airways pilots now. It is very much like getting too drunk at the bar and taking home the 230 girl who you thought was super hot and waking up to her mustache prickling your neck the next morning.
02-20-2018, 03:32 PM
#60
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
This is so remarkably shortsighted, I'm actually stunned. The reason you're not onboard with PBS is "Management wants it... must be bad." Amazing.
Let's back up and see what you're defending. Alaska pilots spend more time than any other airline on bidding. You guys have more phases to your bid than Hobbits have mealtimes. 3 weeks devoted to your archaic paper methods. And no one gets what they want. You've got to spend time cold calling your fellow pilots trying to grease the days off you need. Why? You're shooting yourselves in the feet at this point.
You know how long VX spends on their bids? 3 days. An hour to put together your dates and preferences. Boom done. 3 days to wait until awards are published.
The fact that you're not devoting 3 weeks of your month to the dance you call "Line Bidding" is reason enough for everyone, including management, to be onboard.
Open your eyes. Your system sucks. And all because management wants it doesn't mean it's an automatic no.
Let's back up and see what you're defending. Alaska pilots spend more time than any other airline on bidding. You guys have more phases to your bid than Hobbits have mealtimes. 3 weeks devoted to your archaic paper methods. And no one gets what they want. You've got to spend time cold calling your fellow pilots trying to grease the days off you need. Why? You're shooting yourselves in the feet at this point.
You know how long VX spends on their bids? 3 days. An hour to put together your dates and preferences. Boom done. 3 days to wait until awards are published.
The fact that you're not devoting 3 weeks of your month to the dance you call "Line Bidding" is reason enough for everyone, including management, to be onboard.
Open your eyes. Your system sucks. And all because management wants it doesn't mean it's an automatic no.
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