what will happen to Virgin
07-07-2017, 08:11 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 784
No love lost for me with the retiring of the Virgin brand, but I'm also continually unimpressed with the head honchos in Seattle. They have a chance to come out of their shell and shine. They just choose to operate like it's still the 1970s.
07-07-2017, 08:42 AM
#12
missionary
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: Right seat 787 or missionary
Posts: 98
Brand?
The most disappointing thing at Alaska where they still run the airline with a no. 2 pencil and the wheel still has four sides? It's unrealized potential. But, heck, you can't argue with success.
Merging/acquiring Virgin was more about keeping Jet Blue out of Alaska's back yard.
Any growth will occur at Virgin's under-utilized gates.
Merging/acquiring Virgin was more about keeping Jet Blue out of Alaska's back yard.
Any growth will occur at Virgin's under-utilized gates.
07-07-2017, 08:44 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 127
Serious? I thought most of us were beyond the red KoolAid days. Features and name don't pay our bills, a nice pay raise and good JCBA will. I don't care if they paint a freakin Moose on the tail. Just pay me 
The Virgin thing is overrated anyway. Branson's comments on us since the buyout have been nothing short of disappointing and it's clear he only cares about his own image and brand, the rest of us are expendable. And brand recognition didn't help any profits materialize until oil came crashing way down. It's true that Virgin was recognizable on the transcon market, but so was Alaska with its AA codeshare. Searching on Expedia or orbitz for a JfK to LAX flight, and one column would be (example) Alaska flight 6201 with a note that it's operated by AA. The exposure to a degree was already there, it was just codeshared out. Now the same flights will come up in online searches for transcon flights, except it will be AAG metal.
What's the red tail done for the last 5.5 years that was impressive? It stagnated out, stopping all original vision of it being a 100+ airline competing long term with other major airlines. It barely made a profit and only did so when oil came crashing down. At one point end of 2012, I thought I may be furloughed but luckily they didn't have to as they capped credit hrs for bid award in Jan 2013 and put many on reserve to swallow lack of block hours. Our pay has been near rock bottom, if maybe at/above Spirit and Frontier. If you take the emotion out of it these are just facts for at least my 5.5 yrs here. That's why I don't really feel any strong connection to a red tail. Go ahead and paint it over. Fact remains that of all the mergers in the US for the past 20-30 years, no two-names have survived long term. It just isn't efficient or even feasible. And airline-within-airline concepts have been tried and failed. Day one announcement of April 4th on the PDF file they had a box of info and one piece of information on it was: "Post-close corporate structure name: Alaska Airlines". Not sure why anyone would think VX even had a chance, it was fairly obvious and announced from the get-go what they envisioned.
The Virgin thing is overrated anyway. Branson's comments on us since the buyout have been nothing short of disappointing and it's clear he only cares about his own image and brand, the rest of us are expendable. And brand recognition didn't help any profits materialize until oil came crashing way down. It's true that Virgin was recognizable on the transcon market, but so was Alaska with its AA codeshare. Searching on Expedia or orbitz for a JfK to LAX flight, and one column would be (example) Alaska flight 6201 with a note that it's operated by AA. The exposure to a degree was already there, it was just codeshared out. Now the same flights will come up in online searches for transcon flights, except it will be AAG metal.
What's the red tail done for the last 5.5 years that was impressive? It stagnated out, stopping all original vision of it being a 100+ airline competing long term with other major airlines. It barely made a profit and only did so when oil came crashing down. At one point end of 2012, I thought I may be furloughed but luckily they didn't have to as they capped credit hrs for bid award in Jan 2013 and put many on reserve to swallow lack of block hours. Our pay has been near rock bottom, if maybe at/above Spirit and Frontier. If you take the emotion out of it these are just facts for at least my 5.5 yrs here. That's why I don't really feel any strong connection to a red tail. Go ahead and paint it over. Fact remains that of all the mergers in the US for the past 20-30 years, no two-names have survived long term. It just isn't efficient or even feasible. And airline-within-airline concepts have been tried and failed. Day one announcement of April 4th on the PDF file they had a box of info and one piece of information on it was: "Post-close corporate structure name: Alaska Airlines". Not sure why anyone would think VX even had a chance, it was fairly obvious and announced from the get-go what they envisioned.
07-09-2017, 09:32 AM
#14
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 84
what will happen to Virgin
There are more than a few that feel similarly about VX. I've been there since '06 and while I enjoy working with my fellow crew members and other frontline people, I am not sad to see the brand go at all. We hired some very hard working and dedicated people to move the airplanes but HQ people? Well let's just say some made the job much harder and than it should have been.
Up until about two years ago, I was looking to leave. The pay was bad, work rules were worse, but my schedules were pretty good. I'll be honest, the following isn't common held feeling, but it was simply the worst job I've ever had. Only a handful had experienced the worst this place had to offer, and I guess I was just one of those. Horrible management, top to bottom, no vision, poor practices. Could be just a bad place to work if your luck was bad. And truthfully, again, it wasn't like that for most. But it was for me.
But what most did see was that it was mostly all hype. That's was Virgin companies are... hype, promotion, PR.
The "open door policy" promotion was a big thing to many new hires... many found though it would slam shut right as you approached it.
Remember Virgin Galactic? Yeah, we were told that it would be half VX pilots flying those flights once things got going. They even sent the first three "astronauts" down to get their picture taken touring the factory. Two of those guys left to become Spirit management a couple years later, one of those now works at AAG via QX. All hype... but you would laugh at how many fully believed it.
Truth is, while VX did some things for passengers that were innovative and truly great, it ended up to be no better than any other airline internally. In some cases we were worse. It's too bad the innovations will likely go away, our customers really liked what we did. But this is how it goes sometimes.
I don't mean this as an insult at anybody a Alaska, but the brand does nothing for me. I just don't get it. But I work to put food on the table for my family and to raise my kids. I will work my butt off for that reason alone.
But I won't, ever, shed a tear for the Virgin brand going away. Would have been nice to keep some features, but in the end, to quote a local poet, "there's no there there."
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Up until about two years ago, I was looking to leave. The pay was bad, work rules were worse, but my schedules were pretty good. I'll be honest, the following isn't common held feeling, but it was simply the worst job I've ever had. Only a handful had experienced the worst this place had to offer, and I guess I was just one of those. Horrible management, top to bottom, no vision, poor practices. Could be just a bad place to work if your luck was bad. And truthfully, again, it wasn't like that for most. But it was for me.
But what most did see was that it was mostly all hype. That's was Virgin companies are... hype, promotion, PR.
The "open door policy" promotion was a big thing to many new hires... many found though it would slam shut right as you approached it.
Remember Virgin Galactic? Yeah, we were told that it would be half VX pilots flying those flights once things got going. They even sent the first three "astronauts" down to get their picture taken touring the factory. Two of those guys left to become Spirit management a couple years later, one of those now works at AAG via QX. All hype... but you would laugh at how many fully believed it.
Truth is, while VX did some things for passengers that were innovative and truly great, it ended up to be no better than any other airline internally. In some cases we were worse. It's too bad the innovations will likely go away, our customers really liked what we did. But this is how it goes sometimes.
I don't mean this as an insult at anybody a Alaska, but the brand does nothing for me. I just don't get it. But I work to put food on the table for my family and to raise my kids. I will work my butt off for that reason alone.
But I won't, ever, shed a tear for the Virgin brand going away. Would have been nice to keep some features, but in the end, to quote a local poet, "there's no there there."
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
07-09-2017, 01:32 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Amen from the Alaska side.
Paint Job Pride has no place in a union workplace. This current miserable brand babble that is going on at Alaska Airlines is nothing but a distraction. Amazes me how many pilots buy into that vomitus. Come to work, do "only your job", go home, get paid.
Paint Job Pride has no place in a union workplace. This current miserable brand babble that is going on at Alaska Airlines is nothing but a distraction. Amazes me how many pilots buy into that vomitus. Come to work, do "only your job", go home, get paid.
07-09-2017, 02:17 PM
#16
missionary
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: Right seat 787 or missionary
Posts: 98
Exactly !!!
Amen from the Alaska side.
Paint Job Pride has no place in a union workplace. This current miserable brand babble that is going on at Alaska Airlines is nothing but a distraction. Amazes me how many pilots buy into that vomitus. Come to work, do "only your job", go home, get paid.
Paint Job Pride has no place in a union workplace. This current miserable brand babble that is going on at Alaska Airlines is nothing but a distraction. Amazes me how many pilots buy into that vomitus. Come to work, do "only your job", go home, get paid.
Exactly,
Finally a couple of people who actually get it -
Work to live NOT live to work.
Who's this team they babble-on about? The only real team in my book is my wife, my two kids and the dog. My mother-in-law? She's on her own. God speed, granny.
Just pay me $$$
07-09-2017, 02:55 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 241
Amen from the Alaska side.
Paint Job Pride has no place in a union workplace. This current miserable brand babble that is going on at Alaska Airlines is nothing but a distraction. Amazes me how many pilots buy into that vomitus. Come to work, do "only your job", go home, get paid.
Paint Job Pride has no place in a union workplace. This current miserable brand babble that is going on at Alaska Airlines is nothing but a distraction. Amazes me how many pilots buy into that vomitus. Come to work, do "only your job", go home, get paid.
Same here on the VX side for me...😉
07-10-2017, 04:35 PM
#19
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
The initial fleet plan is combining both fleets with no changes. The feelings are, that the 319s will go when their leases are up, and that is a good bet. The NEOs are performing well and we are hoping they order more and keep a 2 type fleet. The actual fleet plan comes in first quarter 2018 if I remember correctly. Just like everything else, Alaska says one thing indicating a true combination of both, but ends up just making it all Alaska, so my guess is that we will all be flying 737s.
07-10-2017, 05:35 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,825
The initial fleet plan is combining both fleets with no changes. The feelings are, that the 319s will go when their leases are up, and that is a good bet. The NEOs are performing well and we are hoping they order more and keep a 2 type fleet. The actual fleet plan comes in first quarter 2018 if I remember correctly. Just like everything else, Alaska says one thing indicating a true combination of both, but ends up just making it all Alaska, so my guess is that we will all be flying 737s.
Although, for you, compared to the Netjets Phenom, I suppose the 737 would be super spacious. It's all relative.
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