Air Wisconsin
06-23-2016, 07:28 AM
#2532
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 240
06-23-2016, 07:34 AM
#2533
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 857
Story time. PHL-GSO (popular for Republic guys now) full boat with a jump, tankering, and pax brought a ton of bags. Could not bring enough ballast to accommodate jumper due to landing weight. I tried to explain to the CA that lowering the fuel just a couple hundred pounds could allow us to carry enough ballast (drop fuel weight, add ballast weight). He wouldn't allow it because fuel doesn't affect the CG, because it's in the center. 
I told him yes I know that and tried to explain my plan again. "Son don't you understand fuel doesn't affect the CG? No we can't do it".. Jumper denied. 
I told him yes I know that and tried to explain my plan again. "Son don't you understand fuel doesn't affect the CG? No we can't do it".. Jumper denied.
06-23-2016, 07:43 AM
#2534
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: If I tell you, I'd have to kill you
Posts: 292
Uh, let's just stay focused on how awesome Air Whiskey is and how awesome these awesome rumors are. No upgrades, planes being parked, it's no wonder F/O's are leaving for other CRJ operators as they can make more money as a new hire and get a big chunk of the cash right away....... And have a reasonable expectation for upgrade.......Interesting how some "Pilots" on this forum try to steer the discussion away from this grim reality and attempt to "fluff up" this forum with non-pertinent chit-chat........
I've been told no upgrades over the summer. Can't afford to take FOs offline to upgrade during summer months. Also told the CA attrition is not as much as they thought would be. Been told more CAs have to leave in order to run upgrade classes. Three left last month. Not sure how many have left in June so far.
06-23-2016, 07:49 AM
#2535
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 123
The reason why in a nutshell without getting into a ground school lesson that the 200 may become weight restricted it's because of its low max landing weight. The 200 has a max landing weight of 47k while also having the capacity to carry a huge payload for that type of aircraft. This means that we are weight restricted for take off due to our landing weight at our destination. Lots of times our max flight plan take off weight is way below out actuall structure max weight for take off. For example, the CRJ 700 is hardly ever weight restricted because it can land at a higher weight (67k). So, on a flight from DC to PHL , it can carry a full payload of people and bags and fuel for an alternate and still land within its 67k limit. But! That plane can carry a lot! Of fuel, if I remember right it's close to over 20k lbs. so ! If that plane was initially fueled for a flight DC to MCI with alternate fuel and suddenly it was swapped into a DC to PHL flight then the over fuel would cause it to become weight restricted unless they de-fuel it. Btw we also (CRJ200) have a ballast limit! There are things you can do to make it work "sometimes" like counting kids, or burning off fuel. But, if the fuel burn off required to get the jump onboard is a big number then it would not be practical and this is illegal to begin with.
Last edited by Einstein2014; 06-23-2016 at 08:33 AM.
06-23-2016, 08:37 AM
#2536
patience
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,068
The reason why in a nutshell without getting into a ground school lesson that the 200 may become weight restricted it's because of its low max landing weight. The 200 has a max landing weight of 47k while also having the capacity to carry a huge payload for that type of aircraft. This means that we are weight restricted for take off due to our landing weight at our destination. Lots of times our max flight plan take off weight is way below out actuall structure max weight for take off. For example, the CRJ 700 is hardly ever weight restricted because it can land at a higher weight (67k). So, on a flight from DC to PHL , it can carry a full payload of people and bags and fuel for an alternate and still land within its 67k limit. But! That plane can carry a lot! Of fuel, if I remember right it's close to 19k lbs. so ! If that plane was initially fueled for a flight DC to MCI with alternate fuel and suddenly it was swapped into a DC to PHL flight then the over fuel would cause it to become weight restricted unless they de-fuel it. Btw we also (CRJ200) have a ballast limit! There are things you can do to make it work "sometimes" like counting kids, or burning off fuel. But, if the fuel burn off required to get the jump onboard is a big number then it would not be practical and this is illegal to begin with.
06-23-2016, 08:39 AM
#2537
patience
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,068
Story time. PHL-GSO (popular for Republic guys now) full boat with a jump, tankering, and pax brought a ton of bags. Could not bring enough ballast to accommodate jumper due to landing weight. I tried to explain to the CA that lowering the fuel just a couple hundred pounds could allow us to carry enough ballast (drop fuel weight, add ballast weight). He wouldn't allow it because fuel doesn't affect the CG, because it's in the center. I told him yes I know that and tried to explain my plan again. "Son don't you understand fuel doesn't affect the CG? No we can't do it".. Jumper denied.
I told him yes I know that and tried to explain my plan again. "Son don't you understand fuel doesn't affect the CG? No we can't do it".. Jumper denied.
06-23-2016, 09:14 AM
#2538
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 857
I'm used to working some good magic to get people on. Legal magic of course, including putting our own bags in the back when the station has no ballast. Pretty frustrating not being "allowed" to make it work because the guy in charge doesn't understand how a seesaw works.
06-23-2016, 10:11 AM
#2539
Tier 3 Candidate
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Canadair Gosh
Posts: 609
The only times I have kicked a jumpseater off were when an outstation gave all their ballast to another flight when we needed 400 lbs or something more than just two crew bags. I wasn't going to fly around out of CG.
The other we were swapped into a plane that was way overfueled and we would have had to sit for an hour burning fuel before we could take off, making the 50 pax late for their connections at the hub we were going to. That would have been a tough one to explain just to get a jumpseater on, especially since it was the first flight of the day.
The numbers can be massaged without breaking rules, but there are some things that make it impossible. Our little ACARS box knows if we land over 47000, and I don't feel like dancing on the carpet to get someone to work. I commute too and have been booted, its all part of the game.
The other we were swapped into a plane that was way overfueled and we would have had to sit for an hour burning fuel before we could take off, making the 50 pax late for their connections at the hub we were going to. That would have been a tough one to explain just to get a jumpseater on, especially since it was the first flight of the day.
The numbers can be massaged without breaking rules, but there are some things that make it impossible. Our little ACARS box knows if we land over 47000, and I don't feel like dancing on the carpet to get someone to work. I commute too and have been booted, its all part of the game.
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