Air Wisconsin Signs 5 Year CPA With United
03-01-2017, 07:27 AM
#121
patience
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,068
In my opinion, United is one step behind American.
Don't forget, American signed a deal for roughly 40 CRJ-700s with Skywest last year. Those plane were former United Express.
United is getting roughly 50 former American CRJ-200s through Air Wisconsin. It's a trade of regional pilots and American is getting more efficient planes while United takes a step back.
The 50 seaters have the most uncertain future among RJs and American is smart by keeping most of their 50 seat frames at their own companies.
American is adding new E175s at Envoy and used 700s at Skywest while old 200s leave the American system.
United screwed up by not paying Skywest more cheese to keep flying all the Expressjet E145s and Skywest 700s and they're paying for it now. Their product is taking a hit by shifting E145s from Expressjet to TSA and Comutair.
The future of American regional flying consists of more RJs operated by wholly owns which is smart considering the shortage of qualified and willing applicants and the better incentives wholly owns can offer.
The best thing United can do for it's RJ feed is start buying up regional airlines and offering the best flow through programs and overall pay. Their interview program and deal with Wisconsin is a step in the right direction but not enough.
Don't forget, American signed a deal for roughly 40 CRJ-700s with Skywest last year. Those plane were former United Express.
United is getting roughly 50 former American CRJ-200s through Air Wisconsin. It's a trade of regional pilots and American is getting more efficient planes while United takes a step back.
The 50 seaters have the most uncertain future among RJs and American is smart by keeping most of their 50 seat frames at their own companies.
American is adding new E175s at Envoy and used 700s at Skywest while old 200s leave the American system.
United screwed up by not paying Skywest more cheese to keep flying all the Expressjet E145s and Skywest 700s and they're paying for it now. Their product is taking a hit by shifting E145s from Expressjet to TSA and Comutair.
The future of American regional flying consists of more RJs operated by wholly owns which is smart considering the shortage of qualified and willing applicants and the better incentives wholly owns can offer.
The best thing United can do for it's RJ feed is start buying up regional airlines and offering the best flow through programs and overall pay. Their interview program and deal with Wisconsin is a step in the right direction but not enough.
03-01-2017, 07:51 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 536
In my opinion, United is one step behind American.
Don't forget, American signed a deal for roughly 40 CRJ-700s with Skywest last year. Those plane were former United Express.
United is getting roughly 50 former American CRJ-200s through Air Wisconsin. It's a trade of regional pilots and American is getting more efficient planes while United takes a step back.
The 50 seaters have the most uncertain future among RJs and American is smart by keeping most of their 50 seat frames at their own companies.
American is adding new E175s at Envoy and used 700s at Skywest while old 200s leave the American system.
United screwed up by not paying Skywest more cheese to keep flying all the Expressjet E145s and Skywest 700s and they're paying for it now. Their product is taking a hit by shifting E145s from Expressjet to TSA and Comutair.
The future of American regional flying consists of more RJs operated by wholly owns which is smart considering the shortage of qualified and willing applicants and the better incentives wholly owns can offer.
The best thing United can do for it's RJ feed is start buying up regional airlines and offering the best flow through programs and overall pay. Their interview program and deal with Wisconsin is a step in the right direction but not enough.
Don't forget, American signed a deal for roughly 40 CRJ-700s with Skywest last year. Those plane were former United Express.
United is getting roughly 50 former American CRJ-200s through Air Wisconsin. It's a trade of regional pilots and American is getting more efficient planes while United takes a step back.
The 50 seaters have the most uncertain future among RJs and American is smart by keeping most of their 50 seat frames at their own companies.
American is adding new E175s at Envoy and used 700s at Skywest while old 200s leave the American system.
United screwed up by not paying Skywest more cheese to keep flying all the Expressjet E145s and Skywest 700s and they're paying for it now. Their product is taking a hit by shifting E145s from Expressjet to TSA and Comutair.
The future of American regional flying consists of more RJs operated by wholly owns which is smart considering the shortage of qualified and willing applicants and the better incentives wholly owns can offer.
The best thing United can do for it's RJ feed is start buying up regional airlines and offering the best flow through programs and overall pay. Their interview program and deal with Wisconsin is a step in the right direction but not enough.
03-01-2017, 07:54 AM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: If I tell you, I'd have to kill you
Posts: 292
I'm astounded by the amount of people badmouthing this new contract we had nothing to do with as a pilot group, and that saved us from losing our jobs next year. Unless you work(ed) at ZW, you don't know how bad morale has been the past few years knowing Feb 2018 was the end. Approx >80% of this pilot group is looking to get on with a bigger airline and didn't want to have to start over at another regional next year.
I agree. But unfortunately this is a dog eat dog industry. I have a family to feed and was hoping we wouldn't be gone next year either.
But if we did go belly up, who would care that I'd have to find a job and probably at considerably less money to feed my family?
Nobody! It's all a me me me me and what's in it for me nowadays.
Anyway, I'm happy to know if I stay, I'll have a job for at least another 5-7 years.
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03-01-2017, 07:59 AM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,609
In my opinion, United is one step behind American.
Don't forget, American signed a deal for roughly 40 CRJ-700s with Skywest last year. Those plane were former United Express.
United is getting roughly 50 former American CRJ-200s through Air Wisconsin. It's a trade of regional pilots and American is getting more efficient planes while United takes a step back.
The 50 seaters have the most uncertain future among RJs and American is smart by keeping most of their 50 seat frames at their own companies.
American is adding new E175s at Envoy and used 700s at Skywest while old 200s leave the American system.
United screwed up by not paying Skywest more cheese to keep flying all the Expressjet E145s and Skywest 700s and they're paying for it now. Their product is taking a hit by shifting E145s from Expressjet to TSA and Comutair.
The future of American regional flying consists of more RJs operated by wholly owns which is smart considering the shortage of qualified and willing applicants and the better incentives wholly owns can offer.
The best thing United can do for it's RJ feed is start buying up regional airlines and offering the best flow through programs and overall pay. Their interview program and deal with Wisconsin is a step in the right direction but not enough.
Don't forget, American signed a deal for roughly 40 CRJ-700s with Skywest last year. Those plane were former United Express.
United is getting roughly 50 former American CRJ-200s through Air Wisconsin. It's a trade of regional pilots and American is getting more efficient planes while United takes a step back.
The 50 seaters have the most uncertain future among RJs and American is smart by keeping most of their 50 seat frames at their own companies.
American is adding new E175s at Envoy and used 700s at Skywest while old 200s leave the American system.
United screwed up by not paying Skywest more cheese to keep flying all the Expressjet E145s and Skywest 700s and they're paying for it now. Their product is taking a hit by shifting E145s from Expressjet to TSA and Comutair.
The future of American regional flying consists of more RJs operated by wholly owns which is smart considering the shortage of qualified and willing applicants and the better incentives wholly owns can offer.
The best thing United can do for it's RJ feed is start buying up regional airlines and offering the best flow through programs and overall pay. Their interview program and deal with Wisconsin is a step in the right direction but not enough.
I don't think adding 50 seat flying to UA is the right thing to do when your former WO is dying, but I'm glad there are pilots out there not having to find work.
03-01-2017, 09:41 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 501
I'm puzzled. Didn't United decrease its regional feed drastically a few years ago because it wanted to consolidate their schedules and give more flying back to mainline? What I'm thinking of is back when CLE got the axe.
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03-01-2017, 10:09 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 547
If everyone offers some kind of preferential interview, doesn't that mean no one has a preferential interview? Even if we don't believe that, United has so many regional partners that there really isn't any exclusivity. I don't see Delta or AA expanding their programs to non-WO. That leaves plenty of seats at Delta and plenty of seats at United available to off the street hires. LIke I said, the CPP has almost no teeth.
Flows are not the only path to a major. As majors find it harder and harder to staff their regionals though, they will start using flows as an incentive to regional new hires. It cost the major partner nothing but adds value to the regional. AA hires a majority of its pilots from flow, leaving few OTS hires after the military and minority hires. United is well on its way to a similar system. United continues to grow its preferred interview program. Logic would suggest their continued expansion of this kind of program, not a complete abandonment of it. Delta is current shopping to acquiring another regional to own. ( I bet they feel a little stupid for getting rid of Compass and Comair now ) You can bet that when they do acquire another regional, those pilots will have the Endeavor Style Interview or better.
Republic asked AA for flow slots but true to its style, AAG wouldn't give it up for free. Its evidently wasn't important enough to Bedford to give something ( $ ) up for it. I can only assume then, that Bedford has asked UA and DL as well. Given the fact they the still don't exist, I figure Bedford decided to keep the higher CPA rates over the added benefit to his pilots.
Actions speak louder than words. The anti-flow guys can keep beating their chests like a bunch of vagina wearing snowflakes but actions on behalf of the major airline say that the flows/interview agreements will continue to grow, not shrink, resulting in fewer and fewer OTS new hire positions in the future.
03-01-2017, 10:10 AM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
I don't think people are bad mouthing the contract, just speculating as to they why/where/what the future holds. I'd like to think 98% are happy for you guys as a pilot group. But we as pilots cannot help but speculate on the future, since that future affects us all, even if the ripple starts at OAL.
I'm thrilled things are looking up for you guys. I don't think I know anyone at ZW personally, but I know it would suck if people lost their jobs. Uncertain times breed a LOT in internal and family stress, and it is never a good thing for anyone. But at the end of the day, we are all pawns in a game played by folks who don't really have our best interests in mind. Ever. Just remember, you might feel bad for me for a minute if you found out online that I was losing my job. Any decent human would. But as long as you still had a job, and your family was secure, you'd keep going to work and doing your thing. And you would never personally know my suffering (unless, like many, you have suffered thru a BK/furlough/closure prior).
Best of luck to all of you and your cohorts at ZW. It looks like things will take off in a good direction for you guys and gals. Also, keep in mind APC tends to tip the scales on the negative side. That's just the way an anonymous forum is.
I'm thrilled things are looking up for you guys. I don't think I know anyone at ZW personally, but I know it would suck if people lost their jobs. Uncertain times breed a LOT in internal and family stress, and it is never a good thing for anyone. But at the end of the day, we are all pawns in a game played by folks who don't really have our best interests in mind. Ever. Just remember, you might feel bad for me for a minute if you found out online that I was losing my job. Any decent human would. But as long as you still had a job, and your family was secure, you'd keep going to work and doing your thing. And you would never personally know my suffering (unless, like many, you have suffered thru a BK/furlough/closure prior).
Best of luck to all of you and your cohorts at ZW. It looks like things will take off in a good direction for you guys and gals. Also, keep in mind APC tends to tip the scales on the negative side. That's just the way an anonymous forum is.
I'm astounded by the amount of people badmouthing this new contract we had nothing to do with as a pilot group, and that saved us from losing our jobs next year. Unless you work(ed) at ZW, you don't know how bad morale has been the past few years knowing Feb 2018 was the end. Approx >80% of this pilot group is looking to get on with a bigger airline and didn't want to have to start over at another regional next year.
03-01-2017, 11:06 AM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,609
You guys are wasting your time on CBreezy. His argument isn't to prove his point, it is to placate himself. He HAS to believe that is has an easy shot at "off the street" hiring because it is his only choice. Its like trying to reason with a fundamental religious fanatic. No amounts of facts, logic or reasoning will convince them to abandon their beliefs -- they can't come to grips with any reality but their own.
Flows are not the only path to a major. As majors find it harder and harder to staff their regionals though, they will start using flows as an incentive to regional new hires. It cost the major partner nothing but adds value to the regional. AA hires a majority of its pilots from flow, leaving few OTS hires after the military and minority hires. United is well on its way to a similar system. United continues to grow its preferred interview program. Logic would suggest their continued expansion of this kind of program, not a complete abandonment of it. Delta is current shopping to acquiring another regional to own. ( I bet they feel a little stupid for getting rid of Compass and Comair now ) You can bet that when they do acquire another regional, those pilots will have the Endeavor Style Interview or better.
Republic asked AA for flow slots but true to its style, AAG wouldn't give it up for free. Its evidently wasn't important enough to Bedford to give something ( $ ) up for it. I can only assume then, that Bedford has asked UA and DL as well. Given the fact they the still don't exist, I figure Bedford decided to keep the higher CPA rates over the added benefit to his pilots.
Actions speak louder than words. The anti-flow guys can keep beating their chests like a bunch of vagina wearing snowflakes but actions on behalf of the major airline say that the flows/interview agreements will continue to grow, not shrink, resulting in fewer and fewer OTS new hire positions in the future.
Flows are not the only path to a major. As majors find it harder and harder to staff their regionals though, they will start using flows as an incentive to regional new hires. It cost the major partner nothing but adds value to the regional. AA hires a majority of its pilots from flow, leaving few OTS hires after the military and minority hires. United is well on its way to a similar system. United continues to grow its preferred interview program. Logic would suggest their continued expansion of this kind of program, not a complete abandonment of it. Delta is current shopping to acquiring another regional to own. ( I bet they feel a little stupid for getting rid of Compass and Comair now ) You can bet that when they do acquire another regional, those pilots will have the Endeavor Style Interview or better.
Republic asked AA for flow slots but true to its style, AAG wouldn't give it up for free. Its evidently wasn't important enough to Bedford to give something ( $ ) up for it. I can only assume then, that Bedford has asked UA and DL as well. Given the fact they the still don't exist, I figure Bedford decided to keep the higher CPA rates over the added benefit to his pilots.
Actions speak louder than words. The anti-flow guys can keep beating their chests like a bunch of vagina wearing snowflakes but actions on behalf of the major airline say that the flows/interview agreements will continue to grow, not shrink, resulting in fewer and fewer OTS new hire positions in the future.
As I've said in the past, the CPP has no teeth. There isn't a contractual obligation and it's very clear neither Delta or United are interested in giving up control of pilot selection. A preferential interview is nice, but many many people are still failing it and in the end, you still go behind people in seniority order, whereas OTS goes in interview order.
Here's a little food for thought. A friend of mine I referenced earlier was in a recent Delta new hire class. Do you want to guess where almost half of that class came from? A Skywest, Inc property. Not Endeavor. Not the military. A regional without any preferential hiring incentives.
03-01-2017, 11:55 AM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 269
Don't you worry your pretty little head about me. My "vagina wearing snowflake (is that supposed to be an insult?)" chest is just fine. And many of my friends have gotten on at all three majors without a flow.
As I've said in the past, the CPP has no teeth. There isn't a contractual obligation and it's very clear neither Delta or United are interested in giving up control of pilot selection. A preferential interview is nice, but many many people are still failing it and in the end, you still go behind people in seniority order, whereas OTS goes in interview order.
Here's a little food for thought. A friend of mine I referenced earlier was in a recent Delta new hire class. Do you want to guess where almost half of that class came from? A Skywest, Inc property. Not Endeavor. Not the military. A regional without any preferential hiring incentives.
As I've said in the past, the CPP has no teeth. There isn't a contractual obligation and it's very clear neither Delta or United are interested in giving up control of pilot selection. A preferential interview is nice, but many many people are still failing it and in the end, you still go behind people in seniority order, whereas OTS goes in interview order.
Here's a little food for thought. A friend of mine I referenced earlier was in a recent Delta new hire class. Do you want to guess where almost half of that class came from? A Skywest, Inc property. Not Endeavor. Not the military. A regional without any preferential hiring incentives.
Yes I'll admit, I do hear about some slipping through the cracks from time to time.
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