⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Tx but I was kiddin' here...

Slice

Maybe I shoulda joined in...he is senior to me.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Yeah, what were you thinkin'???

A Pilot

FR8,
We all know this isn't a private IPA message board. I wish you guys the best of luck. And however you feel about the Astar or ABX pilots it really doesn't matter. Here is what your company said July 10th in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, before the Astar pilots picketed outside UPS headquarters; UPS spokesman Norman Black said, however, that UPS has no plans to hire DHL pilots who lose their jobs.

Go ALPA and good luck to the 10,000 American workers in Wilmington.

hvydriver

I'm Astar FR8K9. And here's why we picketed your company, not you. I find it ironic that some say "you screwed yourselves for getting hired at UPS" when not only did UPS clearly state before we even thought about picketing ATL that they were not going to hire anyone associated with DHL, but now if that deal doesn't happen, some seem to be worried about furloughs at UPS. Seems like there weren't going to be that many new jobs created, huh? You must be a very conflicted person to be happy that 10,000 people are going to be jobless in this economy now, but yet sorry at the same time that people are being furloughed. Here's the article from the Atlanta Constitution. I highlighted Black's key statement in red for you:

Plan for UPS to fly for rival raises hackles
DHL workers who stand to lose jobs file labor grievance, demand antitrust investigation.

RACHEL TOBIN RAMOS / Staff
[email protected]

A fight is brewing over a deal to make DHL the largest air freight customer of Sandy Springs-based UPS.
DHL, one of UPS' main rivals, has proposed letting UPS fly its packages in the United States. DHL would still deliver them by truck, but Big Brown would carry the cargo on its planes. The deal would give UPS a $1 billion customer, its largest.
It also would put 8,200 employees and pilots out of work at DHL's hub in Wilmington, Ohio.
As the companies work behind the scenes to ink a contract, which could take months, Ohioans and pilots are trying to stop it. They are lobbying against the deal, urging federal antitrust officials to investigate and filing a labor grievance.
"We knew there would be some loss of jobs" because of the current economy "but we thought those jobs would be in the hundreds, not the thousands, " Wilmington Mayor David Raizk told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
Raizk said he feels misled by DHL. He was visiting the parent company's German headquarters for another reason when he was blindsided by the news. "It was a total, total surprise."
DHL is seeking the deal because after spending $300 million on DHL Air Park in Wilmington, its U.S. operations haven't been profitable. "Our continued losses in the U.S. are not acceptable, and the state of the U.S. economy requires more immediate action, " DHL spokesman Robert Mintz said.
DHL says it can save $1 billion a year by contracting with UPS instead of two air cargo carriers at the air park. State officials are concerned after approving $422 million in state incentives for the company.
DHL is the Belgium-based subsidiary of the $83.6 billion giant that is Bonn, Germany's Deutsche Post. Deutsche Post bought the 39-year-old U.S. company in 2002, and the following year it bought Airborne Express, a discount package carrier.
UPS and Memphis-based FedEx challenged the foreign ownership and feared the German post office could pour endless cash into the operations. To quiet critics, DHL kept Airborne's ground business but spun off the cargo airline as ABX Air.
Raizk and Ohio Lt. Gov. Lee Fisher formed a community task force to save the DHL business or redevelop the two-runway DHL Air Park. It's the largest privately owned airport in the world and exclusively handles DHL flights, Raizk said.
They've asked the White House to investigate the deal for antitrust violations. The White House agreed, Raizk said.
The city of 13,000 is also holding prayer vigils and got W.R. "Tim" Timken, the U.S. ambassador to Germany and a retired Ohio businessman, to lobby Deutsche Post's chief executive, Frank Appel, to reconsider.
The Air Line Pilots Association, which represents 500 DHL pilots who work for ASTAR Air Cargo, another DHL contractor, has filed a grievance, claiming their recent contract was negotiated in bad faith by DHL. The pilots say DHL must have known it soon would cancel the March contract. The proposed UPS deal was announced in May. A grievance hearing will take place in Chicago on July 18.
"We're fighting for our careers, our company and the American consumers. Really, that's what we're doing here, " said Pat Walsh, who leads the ASTAR pilots.
An additional 650 pilots fly for ABX Air Cargo, which is 49 percent owned by DHL and is represented by the Teamsters.
UPS says, however, that the DHL deal would be similar to an arrangement the U.S. Postal Service has with UPS and FedEx. Both carriers airlift packages for the post office, which then delivers them on its trucks.
And what is bad news for Wilmington could be a windfall for others. The DHL contract could mean UPS will hire more staff at Worldport, UPS' Louisville, Ky., air hub.
UPS spokesman Norman Black said, however, that UPS has no plans to hire DHL pilots who lose their jobs. He also said UPS wouldn't use the Wilmington hub, which is only 150 miles from Louisville. He doesn't believe there are any "antitrust implications whatsoever."
David G. Ross, a transportation analyst for Stifel Nicolaus, said he thinks the deal will be good for UPS.
"Essentially, if it increases the utilization of their aircraft, the most expensive asset they have ... it increases their profitability, " Ross said.
Ross said it's clear the pilots and Ohio officials are trying to figure out "a way to protect their jobs, " but he doesn't see any collusion, because DHL and UPS still will have separate customers.

WHAT A DHL-UPS CONTRACT MAY MEAN
FOR UPS:
> DHL would be its largest customer, at $1 billion a year.
> UPS could hire more package handlers, pilots and other workers at its Worldport air hub in Louisville, Ky.

FOR DHL:
> The company would save $1 billion a year in costs.
> It would put 8,200 Wilmington, Ohio, workers out of jobs, including 1,150 pilots.

UPSFO4LIFE

I know it's not directed at me, but I think that is an unfair statement. You must be very conflicted knowing that if the deal fails, thousands more will probably lose their jobs when they pull out of NA. You know HVY, nobody is happy that a single person might lose their job. But saying that we hope to avoid a fulough by supporting the deal means we are happy that people will lose their jobs is just wrong. I did not see anywhere in his post that said he was happy about the job loss. The fact is, it would be a good deal for UPS, and a bad deal for the people in ILN. That, I am sure we can agree.

Sideshow Bob

What it boils down to is:

Can a company (however sleazy and unethical) be forced by the government to run that company according to the whims of a government largely engaged in political theater?

And if so:

To what extent can that government direct that company's activities?

We are ALL just pawns in the game, and by and large are the only ones on the chess board with anything to lose.

The whole dynamic is that much more ironic considering the whole financial cluster-copulation.

hvydriver

FO, DHL will not pull out of the US. To do so would be to die globally. Over 40% of all Int'l. product moves into/out of the US. That is DHL's bread and butter. And I disagree with you about FR8K9's post. Not wanting to hire Astar pilots because they picketed UPS is juvenile. Like an entire airline is going to bow down and die quietly simply because UPS is trying to poach the entire DHL US air/sort operations? Come on.

UPSFO4LIFE

In this economy, I do think they will pull out. If this thing is not resolved by the end of the year, DHL will have lost a lot of volume, 40% means nothing. Read a post where DHL just lost the IBM contract. That is a pretty big contract to lose. With less volume in the business these days, FedEX and UPS are doing everything they can to get your volume.

Buck92

Really?! Happy with that statement -- gonna stick with it, are you? Which company initiated this deal -- DHL or UPS? Come on.